APOD: Panorama of the Whale Galaxy (2010 May 17)

APOD Robot · Post by **APOD Robot** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:54 am

Panorama of the Whale Galaxy

Explanation: The see the full length of this blue whale, scroll right. NGC 4631 is a big beautiful spiral galaxy seen edge-on at only about 30 million light-years away. This galaxy's slightly distorted wedge shape led to its popular moniker of the Whale galaxy. The Whale's dark interstellar dust clouds and young bright blue star clusters highlight this panoramic color image. The band of NGC 4631 not only appears similar to band of our own Milky Way Galaxy, but its size is truly similar to our Milky Way as well. The galaxy is also known to have spouted a halo of hot gas glowing in x-rays. The Whale galaxy spans about 140,000 light years and can be seen with a small telescope toward the constellation of the Hunting Dogs (Canes Venatici).

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johnpane · Post by **johnpane** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:34 am

Shouldn't HST be acknowledged in the description of this APOD?

Beyond · Post by **Beyond** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:51 am

Wow! what a Vista! When we scroll right, is that about equal to warp 1?

JuanAustin · Post by **JuanAustin** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:26 pm

It occured to me that if and when we ever start moving around among the stars like we do fictionaly in Star Trek, is there an adequate navigation system that we currently know and use that can be used among the stars, or will it require the creation of a new discipline?
I can see going to fixed objects that are named like nebulae and other named objects like individual stars, but once out there and truly moving about the galaxy, constellations fall apart because they are only recognizable as long as we are on a fixed point..., planet earth. I know this is a long way off as a species, but just curious.

biddie67 · Post by **biddie67** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:33 pm

Interesting question .... an ultra GPS system will have to be devised.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:36 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

wonderboy · Post by **wonderboy** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

JuanAustin wrote:It occured to me that if and when we ever start moving around among the stars like we do fictionaly in Star Trek, is there an adequate navigation system that we currently know and use that can be used among the stars, or will it require the creation of a new discipline?
I can see going to fixed objects that are named like nebulae and other named objects like individual stars, but once out there and truly moving about the galaxy, constellations fall apart because they are only recognizable as long as we are on a fixed point..., planet earth. I know this is a long way off as a species, but just curious.

My worry is that of micro meteorites and other such things. we would need an especially clever navigation system to see things in advance like that.

I also don't think it will ever happen. Sonar waves (i would believe) travel at the speed of light, so if we are also travelling at the speed of light it means our sonar wave wouldn't radiate outwards to warn us of impending doom since we're going the same speed as it. this means that collisions would be inevitable as you travel the long distances at high speed. The odds of hitting something, however small would be inescapable.

Paul.

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Mon May 17, 2010 2:13 pm

JuanAustin wrote:It occured to me that if and when we ever start moving around among the stars like we do fictionaly in Star Trek, is there an adequate navigation system that we currently know and use that can be used among the stars, or will it require the creation of a new discipline?
I can see going to fixed objects that are named like nebulae and other named objects like individual stars, but once out there and truly moving about the galaxy, constellations fall apart because they are only recognizable as long as we are on a fixed point..., planet earth. I know this is a long way off as a species, but just curious.

Celestial coordinate systems are generally two-coordinate systems, because we can treat everything as being infinitely distant, and on the surface of a sphere. If we were actually traveling around the galaxy (which I don't expect to ever happen) we would simply need to add a third coordinate- radial distance from the origin. We use systems like that right now for defining positions within the Solar System.

In any case, we're just talking about a simple spherical coordinate system- a horizontal and vertical angle, and a distance. All that would need to be established is the choice of longitudinal reference (it would be logical to consider the Sun to lie at longitude 0°).

The usual trick in science fiction stories when you are dropped in an unknown place is to find at least three known objects- pulsars are a good choice because they can be identified pretty unambiguously by their periods- and then calculate your position with respect to the relative angles of each. That way you don't need to worry about the changing shapes of constellations.

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Mon May 17, 2010 2:21 pm

wonderboy wrote:My worry is that of micro meteorites and other such things. we would need an especially clever navigation system to see things in advance like that.

When you are traveling at a good percentage of the speed of light, even gas atoms and molecules are a problem. They can't be avoided, so the only solution is to deflect them or shield against them in some way. I always liked the Bussard ramjet approach, which provides both deflection and fuel.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon May 17, 2010 2:38 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
JuanAustin wrote:It occured to me that if and when we ever start moving around among the stars like we do fictionally in Star Trek, is there an adequate navigation system that we currently know and use that can be used among the stars, or will it require the creation of a new discipline?
I can see going to fixed objects that are named like nebulae and other named objects like individual stars, but once out there and truly moving about the galaxy, constellations fall apart because they are only recognizable as long as we are on a fixed point..., planet earth. I know this is a long way off as a species, but just curious.
The usual trick in science fiction stories when you are dropped in an unknown place is to find at least three known objects- pulsars are a good choice because they can be identified pretty unambiguously by their periods- and then calculate your position with respect to the relative angles of each. That way you don't need to worry about the changing shapes of constellations.

At least FOUR known objects (for those of us who live in space-time).:

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23576/ wrote:
How to Use Pulsars for Interstellar Navigation
The signals from pulsars form a natural GPS system that could locate any object in the galaxy to within a meter.
Technology Review, Wednesday, May 27, 2009

<<The Global Position System has revolutionised navigation on Earth. It consists of a network of satellites that each broadcast a time signal. A receiver on Earth can then work out its position in three-dimensional space by comparing the arrival times of the signals from at least three satellites. But the system cannot help with navigation on an interplanetary scale or beyond.

Today, Bertolomé Coll at the Observatoire de Paris in France and a friend, Albert Tarantola, propose an interstellar GPS system that has the ability to determine the position of any point in the galaxy to within a metre.

Their idea is to tune in to the signals from four pulsars: 0751+1807 (3.5ms), 2322+2057 (4.8ms), 0711-6830 (5.5ms) and 1518+0205B (7.9ms), which each generate regular millisecond radio signals.

These form a rough tetrahedron centred on the Solar System.

Why four pulsars? Coll points out that on these scales relativity has to be taken into account when processing the signals and to do this, the protocol has to specify a position in space-time, which requires four signals.

Coll then defines the origin for this system of co-ordinates as 00:00 on 1 January 2001 at the focal point of the Interplanetary Scintillation Array, the radio telescope near Cambridge in the UK that first observed pulsars. With the co-ordinate system established, any interplanetary spacecraft could then use the signals from these pulsars to determine its position in this co-ordinate system to within a few nanoseconds, which corresponds to about a metre.

Ref: http://arxiv.org/abs/0905.4121:
Using Pulsars to Define Space-Time Coordinates>>

Beyond · Post by **Beyond** » Mon May 17, 2010 4:41 pm

Hey guys, i don't think you are tackleing travel off the planet quite right.
Galactic and inter-Galactic travel at Warp speeds are ok, BUT, when you get to Universe and beyond Universe travel, you need something much faster like Thought Speed.
And after you have accomplished that and are ready to travel farther -- then you need what i call "become it Speed". That is when you have attained being what you are trying to get to. To give a small example----what part of your body can you not be at - at any given time? The answer is - none! You are always at your body. So what, or where ever you become, you are always there.

Remember The Traveler from the "Captain Picard" Trek series? He traveled by "Becoming" and showed Wesly how to do it to.

First He became useful to an "idiot" and helped him adjust warp engines for maximum performance which enabled him to travel around the galaxies ship by ship.
Then He started to become Warp Drive and because He was not used to it, He put everyone into a place that they were not used to either and strange things started to happen.
After that, we see him traveling without a ship at all, for He has become His own travel ship and came to help Wesly when Wesly's mother became trapped in a Warp Bubble.

That is where they stopped the progression of becoming.
The last progression of becoming is when you have attained the becoming of everything. THEN you do not have to travel at all, because you are everywhere all the time.

The next step of becoming there are no words for as yet, as it is yet to happen. However, we are very near the end of the process that is bringing it into being.
THEN -- things just may become - NORMAL

I'll have a Birch

to that

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:19 pm

I believe that before we travel between stars we will need to find habitable planets. Finding ET may be even harder. Just 100 years ago; there wasn't even radio communications on Earth. So life on Earth wouldn't have been able to be found. So before we go gallivanting around the Milky Way; we need to find someplace to go. I think if it ever happens; it will still be a long ways off before man becomes intergalactic travelers!

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:47 pm

orin stepanek wrote:So before we go gallivanting around the Milky Way; we need to find someplace to go.

http://asterisk.apod.com/vie ... et#p120957

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:16 pm

neufer wrote:
orin stepanek wrote:So before we go gallivanting around the Milky Way; we need to find someplace to go.
http://asterisk.apod.com/vie ... et#p120957

I'm sure NASA has the problem fighued out!

DavidLeodis · Post by **DavidLeodis** » Tue May 18, 2010 6:51 pm

Excellently processed image. I notice from his website that Nikolaus was born in Vienna in 1992 ("1992 in Wien geboren"). It's good to see someone so young having a keen interest in astronomy. He clearly is already adept at image processing and should have a good future ahead of him in astrophotography circles.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:12 am

orin stepanek wrote:So before we go gallivanting around the Milky Way; we need to find someplace to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah wrote:
<<Ordered by God to go to the city of Nineveh to prophesy against it "for their great wickedness is come up before me" Jonah seeks instead to flee from "the presence of the Lord" by going to Jaffa and sailing to Tarshish, which, geographically, is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. A huge storm arises and the sailors cast lots and learn that Jonah is to blame. Jonah admits this and states that if he is thrown overboard the storm will cease. The sailors try to get the ship to the shore but in failing feel forced to throw him overboard, at which point the sea calms. Jonah is miraculously saved by being swallowed by a large whale specially prepared by God where he spent three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17). In chapter two, while in the great fish, Jonah prays to God in his affliction and commits to thanksgiving and to paying what he has vowed. God commands the fish to vomit Jonah out.>>

Question: Did it take longer for NOAH to be thrown down into the whale or to be thrown up?
--------------------------

Art (NOAA) Neuendorffer

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:28 am

neufer wrote:Question: Did it take longer for NOAH to be thrown down into the whale or to be thrown up?
--------------------------
Art (NOAA) Neuendorffer

It was Jonah not NOAA.

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Wed May 19, 2010 12:04 pm

neufer wrote:
<<Ordered by God to go to the city of Nineveh to prophesy against it "for their great wickedness is come up before me" Jonah seeks instead to flee from "the presence of the Lord" by going to Jaffa and sailing to Tarshish, which, geographically, is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. A huge storm arises and the sailors cast lots and learn that Jonah is to blame. Jonah admits this and states that if he is thrown overboard the storm will cease. The sailors try to get the ship to the shore but in failing feel forced to throw him overboard, at which point the sea calms. Jonah is miraculously saved by being swallowed by a large whale specially prepared by God where he spent three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17). In chapter two, while in the great fish, Jonah prays to God in his affliction and commits to thanksgiving and to paying what he has vowed. God commands the fish to vomit Jonah out.>>

Some stories are hard to digest; Jonah just didn't stomach well and the whale got sick

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Wed May 19, 2010 12:22 pm

bystander wrote:
neufer wrote:Question: Did it take longer for NOAH to be thrown down into the whale or to be thrown up?
--------------------------
Art (NOAA) Neuendorffer
It was Jonah not NOAA.

It was a trick question.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Wed May 19, 2010 1:01 pm

orin stepanek wrote:
neufer wrote:
orin stepanek wrote:So before we go gallivanting around the Milky Way; we need to find someplace to go.
http://asterisk.apod.com/vie ... et#p120957
I'm sure NASA has the problem fighued out!

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... deo=168719

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Wed May 19, 2010 1:46 pm

neufer wrote: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... deo=168719

A broken potty could be a problem. They couldn't even pull over to the side of the road; or go out the window.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAMeajQYJkM&NR=1

Starship Asterisk*

APOD: Panorama of the Whale Galaxy (2010 May 17)

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