APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Pablo Morgan » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:56 pm

Though some at the VLT might be offended, I surely heard the great refrain of The Beatles,
But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning 'round.

Nice job. An inspired way of looking.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by DavidLeodis » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:17 pm

DavidLeodis wrote:I never saw the video due to it being pulled under the copyright claim. I do though wonder why the 'Astronomy Picture of the Day' is gradually becoming more an 'Astrononomy Video of the Day'. I very much prefer a single astronomy image to having to watch videos that I also sometimes have problems loading. I hope members do not mind me posting my moan as I appreciate from threads over time that videos seem to be popular with others.

Edit added shortly after I posted. I've found that the "here" in the final sentence of the explanation brings up an 8 minutes 10 seconds video titled 'VLT (Very Large Telescope) HD Timelapse Footage'. I wonder how that original video (credited to NikoBustos) compares to what was the APOD video before it was pulled. Thanks for any help.
I've just found that the video is now live when clicking on the arrow on the APOD (the other links though still state the video is blocked) so I've been able to see it! :o

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by neufer » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:41 pm

mizaralcor18 wrote:
Wow, people really like to waste space on off-the-topic posts on this list.
I didn't really need a lecture on begs the question.
I doubt if anyone else did either.
Person 1: mizaralcor18 is annoyed right now.
Person 2: How do you know?
Person 1: Well, because he is really angry.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by mizaralcor18 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:32 pm

Wow, people really like to waste space on off-the-topic posts on this list. I didn't really need a lecture on begs the question. I doubt if anyone else did either.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by DavidLeodis » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:02 am

I never saw the video due to it being pulled under the copyright claim. I do though wonder why the 'Astronomy Picture of the Day' is gradually becoming more an 'Astrononomy Video of the Day'. I very much prefer a single astronomy image to having to watch videos that I also sometimes have problems loading. I hope members do not mind me posting my moan as I appreciate from threads over time that videos seem to be popular with others.

Edit added shortly after I posted. I've found that the "here" in the final sentence of the explanation brings up an 8 minutes 10 seconds video titled 'VLT (Very Large Telescope) HD Timelapse Footage'. I wonder how that original video (credited to NikoBustos) compares to what was the APOD video before it was pulled. Thanks for any help.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by neufer » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:48 am

mizaralcor64 wrote:
Interesting that the video has been pulled under a copyright claim. First time I've seen that in APOD.

Which begs the question, why not remove it and post another one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
<<Begging the question is a type of logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise. The first known definition in the West is by the Greek philosopher Aristotle around 350 BC, in his book Prior Analytics, where he classified it as a material fallacy. Begging the question is related to the circular argument or circular reasoning, though these are considered absolutely different by Aristotle.

Example:
  • Person 1: Bob is annoyed right now.
    Person 2: How do you know?
    Person 1: Well, because he is really angry.
Many English speakers assume "begs the question" means "raises the question" and use it accordingly:for example, "this year's deficit is half a trillion dollars, which begs the question: how are we ever going to balance the budget?" Many experts deem such usage incorrect.>>

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by mizaralcor64 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:26 am

Interesting that the video has been pulled under a copyright claim. First time I've seen that in APOD. Which begs the question, why not remove it and post another one?

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by bubbaraymartin » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:33 am

What a shame the video was redacted due to some sort of copyright war. So much for mr. vargas's possible large number of views and the satisfaction of having the video become a part of APOD. :?

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Stonefoot » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:41 am

It would be nice if someone could check on the copyright status of videos before posting them as a "picture of the day" - - unless they did and got blindsided, in which case I'd want to know who did that (to put them on my permanent sh*tlist).

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by owlice » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:35 am

I have to wonder about the validity of the complaint, given that the credits on the version vargas uploaded say
ALL IMAGES: (eso.org) taken on location by Stephane Guisard and Jose Francisco Salgado.

ESO/S. Guisard (http://www.eso.org/~sguisard)

ESO/José Francisco Salgado (http://www.josefrancisco.org)
and these two are credited with the video shown on today's APOD. Seems backwards to me, that vargas is claiming rights.
islader2 wrote:Since ANN and OWL like the music, I withdraw my comment about the bad music. ANN and OWL often are more sagacious that APOD itself.
Thank you! Kind of you to say, but unnecessary; music is an individual thing, as the soundtrack used in the vargas video clearly shows. I found that soundtrack.... ahhh.... let's say "not to my liking" and leave it at that. I did like the music on the APOD video, and in checking out the composer, was amused to find a work called Yak-Sized Piece of Grit That Flew Into My Eye, Causing 15 Seconds of Painful Disorientation. Made me laugh, that!

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by neufer » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:17 am

bystander wrote:
nicolas fabian bustos vargas (NikoBustos) is the uploader of the original video upon which this video is based.
He is not the copyright holder of any of the footage in the video. I suggest you voice your objections on his video.
http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheBizarroJerry.htm wrote:
    • The Bizarro Jerry
    FELDMAN: Look who I ran into.

    [VARGAS, a heavy Fed-Ex guy comes into view in the hall.]

    VARGAS: [testy] Hello, José..

    JOSE: [testy] Hello, VARGAS..

    [They both break into grins, chuckling--it was a joke.]

    JOSE: Ya wanna catch a ballgame this weekend?

    VARGAS: Great! I'll see ya later! [leaves]

    JOSE: Okay. [to self, smiling] VARGAS..
    .........................................................
    [JERRY and GEORGE are eating at an outdoor table, possibly in a zoo.]

    JERRY: All right. How 'bout this one: let's say you're abducted by aliens.

    GEORGE: Fine.

    JERRY: They haul you aboard the mother ship, take you back to their planet as a curiosity.
    Now: would you rather be in their zoo, or their circus?

    GEORGE: I gotta go zoo. I feel like I could set more of my own schedule.

    JERRY: But in the circus you get to ride around in the train, see the whole planet!

    GEORGE: I'm wearin' a little hat, I'm jumpin' through fire.. They're puttin' their little alien heads in my mouth..

    JERRY: [resigned] At least it's show business..

    GEORGE: But in the zoo, you know, they might, put a woman in there with me to uh.. you know, get me to mate.

    JERRY: What if she's got no interest in you?

    GEORGE: W--then I'm pretty much where I am now. At least I got to take a ride on a spaceship.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Craig » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:59 am

I was saddened to see the video taken down by a copyright dispute. It was my intention to show it to someone unfamiliar with the site; pity that small minds and big egos so often obscure a far larger universe. Thanks for posting the video regardless. :D

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by cmflyer » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:41 am

I was going to show both videos to my students, but not either now that the edit has been redacted. It's very cool and educational and flattering to the original. Neener, neener, I guess.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by bystander » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:41 am

LinuxGuyInVA wrote:As of 21:16 US/EDT, youtube says:
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by nicolas fabian bustos vargas.
Sorry about that.
Anyone know what's up?
Hmm, that's odd! An earlier version is still up.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
nicolas fabian bustos vargas (NikoBustos) is the uploader of the original video upon which this video is based.
He is not the copyright holder of any of the footage in the video. I suggest you voice your objections on his video.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by LinuxGuyInVA » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:18 am

As of 21:16 US/EDT, youtube says:
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by nicolas fabian bustos vargas.
Sorry about that.
Anyone know what's up?

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by davidruben » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:37 pm

The video is described as "been digitally rotated so that it is the stars that stay (approximately) steady, and the Earth that moves beneath them". The digital alteration seems though misconcieved. What we seem to be shown is the ground rotating around a horizon point with the backdrop of stars staying still. Hence (where a dot is distant star) _. to \. to |. to /. yet if free floating in space the earth would not seem to rotate about this camera on one spot on its surface, but of course rotate about the earth's centre.

So while the description is of "as if the camera were floating free in space", this is anything but - that camera in space whilst indeed not rotating with respect to the distant stars would not see these views unless traveling in a huge circle, the diameter of the earth, so that its telescoped tangential view of one spot on the earth's surface would not change. If a camera in space was really free floating, i.e. stationary with respect to the star background, then the surface of the earth seen in these clips would rotate out of view at some 1000mph plus! No wonder people have commented about vertigo feeling !

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by bigrbigr » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:10 pm

very cool, as "noel" said (prespective) that was my first look at that cind of angle. it just puts a difrent look at how small earth truly is. almost like a astronauts view, but close up!

very cool!

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by BulletPeople » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:58 pm

Thank you a great deal for posting my minor edit of the excellent original video by Salgado and Guisard at ESO.

One thing that has gotten little comment and to me was the most fascinating result of this switched perspective is the distortion of the stars that occurs. Some people have guessed that it is lens distortion, but to me it appears to follow the horizon and I wonder if it is the lens effect caused by the atmosphere. This is not noticeable in conventional time lapse clips but really stands out here.

Also, is anyone familiar with other time lapse clips of the sky from NASA or some other government entity who would not object to my using their original footage to produce more of these? The ones I have done that I can't share publicly are absolutely mesmerizing and I would love to be able to produce some that could be shared freely.

Nick D'Orazio
BulletPeople.com

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:50 pm

NoelC wrote:I notice the laser is off sometimes... Is that when there's a sufficiently bright "guide star" in the field of view that the laser is not necessary?
Maybe. But not all images are made using the AO system. It depends on the wavelength and the FOV. AO is mainly used for IR, and only works for very narrow fields (a few arcseconds). So I'd expect that a normal imaging session, covering a range of targets, would only use the laser sometimes.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Beyond » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:39 pm

WOW! The laser must be on long range auto-tracking. I can't see a Goa'uld ship anywhere.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by islader2 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:27 pm

Since ANN and OWL like the music, I withdraw my comment about the bad music. ANN and OWL often are more sagacious that APOD itself.

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by NoelC » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:12 pm

I notice the laser is off sometimes... Is that when there's a sufficiently bright "guide star" in the field of view that the laser is not necessary?

-Noel

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by neufer » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:34 pm

Wolf Kotenberg wrote:
at 40 seconds, what was being lasered ?
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100906.html
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/05/30/very-large-telescope-very-stunning-time-lapse-video/ wrote:
<<I love the shots of the observatories shooting orange lasers out their domes (here’s a gorgeous hi-res photo of it). They’re fending off attacks by the Goa’uld, Ori, and Wraith using those to help counteract atmospheric distortion; the laser hits a layer of sodium atoms high in the atmosphere and causes them to glow. This creates a bright artificial star in the telescope’s view, which jiggles and wiggles as the atmosphere roils. The way the "star" moves can be counteracted by the telescope, sharpening up the image it makes. This tech, called adaptive optics, has revolutionized high-resolution ground-based astronomy. It has also given the VLT the ability to make incredibly sharp and gorgeous images.>>

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Wolf Kotenberg » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:17 pm

at 40 seconds, what was being lasered ?

Re: APOD: Earth Rotating Under VLT (2011 Jun 01)

by Ann » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:57 pm

The video reminds me very strongly of one of the defining moments that turned me into a diehard astronomy nerd.

It was 1970 or 1971, a crisp and clear winter night. Snow on the ground. I had just read about the Andromeda galaxy, that it was high in the sky and you could see it just fine with a pair of binoculars. My parents had a pair of binoculars, and I decided to go out and find the galaxy.

Well, this was the first time ever that I had watched the sky through binoculars. I was frustrated and confused at the small field of vision. A bright star would suddenly sail into view as I moved my binoculars a little, and then another, but I had no idea which ones they were.

I stood there for a while trying to aim my binoculars just so, but eventually my arms got just too tired. So I went inside and got myself a blanket that I spread on the ground. Now I could lie down on the ground on top of the blanket and rest my arms. But, wow! What a feeling that was, lying down on the snowy ground, feeling every inch of my body touch the ground, and feeling, as it were, the enormous sphere of the Earth curving away from me on all sides. And yet, even though the Earth was enormous compared to me, it was so incredibly, unbelievably tiny compared with the glittering blackness that stretched away to infinity above me, as I stared straight into this endless blackness. And I could feel, I could imagine, how the enormous yet tiny sphere of the Earth was like a sailing ship in the night, sailing along in the cosmos, floating inside it. I could almost feel the Earth turn, and I could almost see the stars move along grand celestial arcs above me, although I and the Earth were really the ones that were moving. And yet it moves, as Galileo said!

But the blackness that I was staring into wasn't all black. Back then, it didn't occur to me that stars could be blue, so as I swept my binoculars over stars with solidly negative (blue) color indexes - Alpha Andromedae, Pi Andromedae, Nu Andromedae - I didn't see that they were blue, but only brilliantly, icy white. So when I suddenly, and after a very long time of trying, finally found M31 as it sailed from nowhere into my field of view, I'm sure I gasped out loud. Where the stars had been brilliant points of icy white, the galaxy was soft, extended and yellowish. It was yellowish! I'm not kidding you! I can't explain how the soft texture and yellow color moved me, because these qualities made it so overwhelmingly obvious that the object that I had finally found in that ocean of blackness was a different thing that the stars. It was, rather, billions of stars. Billions and billions. And I was looking at all these stars all at once.

And I felt, again so strongly that I can't put it in words, that there was someone there inside that yellow softness. Not so that I felt a mystic "connection" with someone in that blurry spot. Not so that I felt the actual "presence" of someone. But I knew that I was looking at billions and billions of stars all at once, and I felt so strongly that I can't put it in words, that there was someone in there. At least one star out of the billions and billions that I was looking at all at once had a planet that was like the Earth, and there were people on that planet that were at least a bit like us. I was totally certain of it.

Now I'm not so sure. What I saw back then was the yellow bulge of M31, and I'm no longer at all sure that bulges are ideal places for habitable planets. I'm not sure of that at all. When I have thought back on that night, I have felt less and less certain that the yellow softness that I could see in my binoculars actually contained any advanced life forms at all. Of course, the actual life-friendliness or lack of it of planets in the bulge has nothing whatsoever to do with what I might think of it, so my first impression may have been right, for all I know: maybe there was someone in that yellow softness after all.

One thing is certain: I'll never forget the magic of that night. And I have been an astronomy nerd ever since.

I couldn't find any nice pictures to illustrate my story, but...

Image

This is not me, because it's a guy. And it's broad daylight here. But he will have to do, because it is surprisingly difficult to find pictures of people lying on the ground watching the sky.
This clearly isn't the Earth, but it brings home the idea of the Earth as a small sphere floating in a big "skyscape".

Ann

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