APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Strings » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:35 pm

I mix hexagonal suger crystals in a cup with hot water. Spin the cup and the remaining crystals in the bottom of the cup form a hexagon. Maybe hexagonal crystals in the atmosphere?

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by ColoradoSky » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Anybody know: when will Cassini try again to image the north pole of Saturn?

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:34 am

jgalt wrote:The hexagonal pattern is caused by a diocotron instability. The magnetic field converges at the poles causing electric current filaments (plasma) to rotate around each other. The distortions occur when two sheets of plasma flow past each other causing them to rotate in pairs and form vortices due to long range attractive electromagnetic forces and short-range repulsive forces.
This is the least likely of explanations. The structure is in dense material, and is almost certainly caused by fluid dynamic effects (which is supported by the artificial creation of similar structures in the laboratory, even in the absence of a good understanding of what is going on).

Any plasma present above the atmosphere is far too tenuous, and involves far too little energy to have much impact on the dense atmosphere below. Auroras do not influence the bulk movement of Earth's atmosphere, and neither do they on other planets.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by jgalt » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:12 am

The hexagonal pattern is caused by a diocotron instability. The magnetic field converges at the poles causing electric current filaments (plasma) to rotate around each other. The distortions occur when two sheets of plasma flow past each other causing them to rotate in pairs and form vortices due to long range attractive electromagnetic forces and short-range repulsive forces.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Star*Hopper » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:35 pm

Steve Dutch wrote:Technical note: two frames is not a time lapse movie.

...
Uhh....technically, it is. :mrgreen:

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by mararcin » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:06 am

Isn't it obvious? We've never found Santa's home on the North Pole because he lives on Saturn's pole.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by TNT » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:41 am

Thanks for the clarification, bystander. I didn't understand that sentence.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by eltodesukane » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:07 pm

Durant wrote:The hexagon is a popular shape in nature ... witness the benzene ring and the compartments in a honeycomb.
It's kind of the best way to make a circle out of straight segments, without turning too much or too often.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by bystander » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:51 pm

APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2009 Dec 14)
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17846

APOD: Unusual Auroras Over Saturn's North Pole (2008 Nov 19)
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15074
TNT wrote:Is the black area a circular frame or space?
APOD Robot wrote:The pole center was not well imaged and has been excluded.
CICLOPS wrote:Imaging team scientists calibrated and stitched together 55 images to create a mosaic and three-frame movie. The mosaics do not show the region directly around the north pole because it had not yet fully emerged from winter night at that time.

Saturn's Hexagon Comes to Light Apod 22/01/2012

by pietbeentjes » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:34 pm

I've made in my garden several 'squares' of round, circular tiles, starting with one in the middle, next making a round of 6 tiles fitted around that middle one, then a round of 12 tiles fitting around the former 6, then 18, 24 etc. My largest square has, in that way, 127, round tiles. In the end it comes out that every round fits within a hexagonal.

I think this could be a fair explanation for Saturn's hexagonal where a lot of clouds ("tiles") seem to be of the same dimension. The rotation of Saturn fixes them nicely in the hexagonal pattern.
I am a pensioned mathematician, so I leave the the proof of this to my younger collegues in physics, mathematics and weather dynamics.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by manmeetvirdi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:02 pm

Lets drop a H-Bomb right at the center and explode it!
What will happen?

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Axel » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:12 pm

This is not a new pneomenon. It was studied - at least theoretically - by Kelvin in the 19th century and has been observed in laboratories, in Earth's weather, and in other contexts. See:
http://chaos.aip.org/resource/1/chaoeh/ ... horized=no
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10. ... 2.0.CO%3B2
http://dcwww.camd.dtu.dk/~tbohr/RotatingPolygon/
http://cjournal.concordia.ca/journalarc ... 8625.shtml

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Durant » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:20 pm

The hexagon is a popular shape in nature ... witness the benzene ring and the compartments in a honeycomb.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by TTLG » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:52 pm

The pole was blacked out because it was low res? Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Must be a spaceport. This explains the patterns as well as all the UFO's we are seeing. ;-)

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Chris Peterson » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Al B wrote:I'd like to believe all things are the same whether it's a whirlpool in the sink, a tornado, hurricane, or galaxy. A drop of oil on the still waters surface or the expansion of the universe. Saturn's hexagon or a snowflake. The only difference is size, so I guess that it does matter.
Size matters hugely... and is why things are demonstrably not the same over different scales. Atoms behave differently than sink drains, which behave differently than tornadoes, which behave differently than galaxies.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Beyond » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:53 pm

orin stepanek wrote:don't blink during the movie. or you'll miss it. :wink: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZAI1LkFlVg
I didn't have time to blink. :lol:

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Al B » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:52 pm

I'd like to believe all things are the same whether it's a whirlpool in the sink, a tornado, hurricane, or galaxy. A drop of oil on the still waters surface or the expansion of the universe. Saturn's hexagon or a snowflake. The only difference is size, so I guess that it does matter.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by neufer » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:33 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl-Gustaf_Arvid_Rossby wrote:
Image
Dec. 17, 1956 Time
<<Carl-Gustaf Arvid Rossby (Stockholm 28 December 1898 – Stockholm 19 August 1957) was a Swedish-U.S. meteorologist who first explained the large-scale motions of the atmosphere in terms of fluid mechanics. Rossby came into meteorology and oceanography while studying under Vilhelm Bjerknes in Bergen in 1919, where Bjerknes' group was developing the concept of polar front, and University of Leipzig. He also studied at the Lindenberg Observatory, Brandenburg where upper air measurements by kite and balloon were researched.

During World War II, Rossby organised the training of military meteorologists, recruiting many of them to his Chicago department in the post-war years where he began adapting his mathematical description of atmospheric dynamics to weather forecasting by electronic computer, having started this actitivites in Sweden using BESK. In 1947 he became founding director of the Institute of Meteorology in Stockholm, dividing his time between there, Chicago and Woods Hole. After the war he visited Professor Hans Ertel, an old friend, in Berlin. Their cooperation led to the mathematical formulation of the socalled Rossby waves. Between 1954 and his death in Stockholm in 1958, he championed and developed the field of atmospheric chemistry.>>

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by owlice » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:27 pm

TNT wrote: There should be an apostrophe between the 'n' and 's' in Saturns :wink:
There is on the original APOD, but Otto Posterman cannot handle apostrophes. Give the guy a break; he's a robot!

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by TNT » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:15 pm

Is the black area a circular frame or space?
There should be an apostrophe between the 'n' and 's' in Saturns :wink:

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Steve Dutch » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:57 pm

Technical note: two frames is not a time lapse movie.

This appears to be a fantastic example of a standing wave, though why six cycles and why it is sustained are still mysteries.

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by smitty » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:42 pm

Can anyone say whether the apparently linear "spokes" seen in the movie are real phenomena or simply artifacts of the way in which the images were processed?

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by orin stepanek » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:09 pm

don't blink during the movie. or you'll miss it. :wink: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZAI1LkFlVg

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by obscurechemist » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:54 pm

looks like cyclohexane to me

Re: APOD: Saturns Hexagon Comes to Light (2012 Jan 22)

by Byork » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:31 am

each side of the saturn hexagon consists of atmospheric tunnels caused by differential flow of particles above and below hexagon latitude. the atmospheric tunneling system may at times extend for the full length of hexagonal structure. particle stream along length of tunneling must be in a braided manner - the intertwining of one or more streams of particles form the tunneling phenomenon.
intertwining of streams of particles also exist on the galactic scale - the andromeda galaxy has numerous intertwining streams of stars along its spiral arms forming braided strands of star clouds. however, on the galactic scale, gravitational forces are probably involved in formation of the braided star cloud structure.

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