APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:31 pm

bystander wrote:
orin stepanek wrote: All because of one man's whim!
I'm curious, what one person do you blame for the reclassification?
geckzilla wrote:Pluto never lost its status as a planet. The media and a few scientists just made a circus out of it.
To clear up my own confusion; I did some research and came up with this!
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
I guess i remembered old press releases more so than the astronomers! Anyway; I'm at peace with it all now! 8-) :D

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by Guest » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:00 am

henrystar wrote:The FIRST words of the caption should be "artist's illustration."
I agree. I read the first few lines, incredulous of how they could image the damn thing. And so, I barely understood the lines, the first time I read them.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by geckzilla » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:22 am

Pluto never lost its status as a planet. The media and a few scientists just made a circus out of it.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:54 am

bystander wrote:
orin stepanek wrote: All because of one man's whim!
I'm curious, what one person do you blame for the reclassification?
That was back about in 2006! I don't remember how it all got started; but it led to the reclassification of planets!
Sorry everyone! I seem to have remembered everything wrong! :oops: going back in time to find answer to bystander's question I found this; What got me riled in the first place was losing Pluto as a planet! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14489259/ns ... er-planet/
It appeared that after Pluto lost it's Planetary status it got reinstated as a dwarf! While I still don't like the term dwarf; I will abide by it! Can I call it a small planet! :? Geckzilla; you got a crow eating smiley!

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:47 am

Having trouble posting! :oops:

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by bay area john » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:21 am

So we see that many planets have moons. Do any MOONS have moons, or what would their satellites be called if they had them?

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by bystander » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:49 am

orin stepanek wrote: All because of one man's whim!
I'm curious, what one person do you blame for the reclassification?

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by geckzilla » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:27 am

orin stepanek wrote:Sigh! :roll: You're in an argumentative mood today! I see your point; but you aren't seeing my point. When Pluto was called a planet; it was a planet! Then people started finding other planets in the outer Solar system and all of a sudden Pluto got degraded! All because of one man's whim! I cry; No fair! You cry Yaa! Well I'd rather go with "small" planet or little planet! To me dwarf is so degrading! I take no offence with your beliefs though as you are welcome to them! Oh; by the way; if you classify fruits; than apples would be Jonathan; Red Delicious; Yellow Delicious; Pink Lady; Granny Smiths; etc.; etc. :wink: Now I hope we can be friends with our different beliefs! :)
I'm not quite sure you really do see my point. See Chris's post above this one. My issue with your stance is that you feel Pluto was degraded. You are also taking offense at the term "dwarf" when neither degradation nor offense was intended. You are anthropomorphizing the classification system.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:16 am

geckzilla wrote:Well, then, I suppose you should stop classifying any object. Henceforth we shall not distinguish oranges from apples and all will be known simply as fruits.
But of course, that describes our classification of Solar System objects (and now, extrasolar objects) very well. We have dozens or hundreds of planets circling the Sun, and they are finely classified- terrestrial planets, gas giant planets, dwarf planets, asteroidal planets, etc. Just because we have apples and oranges doesn't mean we don't have fruit, and just because we have gas giants and dwarf planets doesn't mean we don't have planets.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by Beyond » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:02 pm

You guys are getting to be rather fruity. Now, the Asterisk* has an orchard. The question is: is it a regular orchard, or a dwarf orchard :?: :lol2:

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:48 pm

geckzilla wrote:
orin stepanek wrote:If you want; but I don't see where you think I'm combining apples and oranges. So you might classify the big 4; the little 4 and the dwarfs; and pretty soon you have all kinds of classifications to worry about. Sure the differences are there; but if you want to get picky each and every planet is different; so you could have all kind of different objects to classify! Why not just say planets; and if you talk about a particular one you can tell about it's properties! 8-)
I'm simply applying the same anthropomorphism to fruits as you are to the planets. I wouldn't want to offend them by pointing out their differences and labeling them accordingly.
Sigh! :roll: You're in an argumentative mood today! I see your point; but you aren't seeing my point. When Pluto was called a planet; it was a planet! Then people started finding other planets in the outer Solar system and all of a sudden Pluto got degraded! All because of one man's whim! I cry; No fair! You cry Yaa! Well I'd rather go with "small" planet or little planet! To me dwarf is so degrading! I take no offence with your beliefs though as you are welcome to them! Oh; by the way; if you classify fruits; than apples would be Jonathan; Red Delicious; Yellow Delicious; Pink Lady; Granny Smiths; etc.; etc. :wink: Now I hope we can be friends with our different beliefs! :)

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:26 pm

Abyssinians are a curiuos breed. So, probably, are Makemakians. :lol2:

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by geckzilla » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:20 pm

orin stepanek wrote:If you want; but I don't see where you think I'm combining apples and oranges. So you might classify the big 4; the little 4 and the dwarfs; and pretty soon you have all kinds of classifications to worry about. Sure the differences are there; but if you want to get picky each and every planet is different; so you could have all kind of different objects to classify! Why not just say planets; and if you talk about a particular one you can tell about it's properties! 8-)
I'm simply applying the same anthropomorphism to fruits as you are to the planets. I wouldn't want to offend them by pointing out their differences and labeling them accordingly.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by 7U_D4 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:03 pm

I lived in HI for a couple of years in the '70s and had the chance to visit the summit of Mauna Kea Christmas day of 1977 (and returned summer of '99). The CHF was nearing completion in '77. While by '99 the summit started to look like a subdivision.

Anyway, from the Hawaiian slang I picked up in the 70's I assumed the name of the (non-) dwarf planet referred to being lifeless. in Hawaiian make (MAH-kay) means dead and makemake would be really really dead. I think it is a fitting descriptor for a world deeper in darkness than Pluto.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:59 pm

geckzilla wrote:
orin stepanek wrote:
geckzilla wrote:I'm pretty sure that Makemake is a "dwarf planet" rather than a "dwarf not a planet" ... really not sure what all the fuss is. ;)
You know; ( and not to make a biggie out of it) there are dwarf people; and I like to address them as people and not dwarfs! I think it would be unkind! I feel that about planets! It's not really a big deal; but for some of us; Pluto will always be a full fledged planet! Sure it's smaller than some; but so what? Just because a group of astronomers waited till the majority of astronomers went home to cast their vote making dwarfs out of planets we probably haven't even discovered yet!
Well, then, I suppose you should stop classifying any object. Henceforth we shall not distinguish oranges from apples and all will be known simply as fruits.
If you want; but I don't see where you think I'm combining apples and oranges. So you might classify the big 4; the little 4 and the dwarfs; and pretty soon you have all kinds of classifications to worry about. Sure the differences are there; but if you want to get picky each and every planet is different; so you could have all kind of different objects to classify! Why not just say planets; and if you talk about a particular one you can tell about it's properties! 8-)

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:50 pm

ta152h0 wrote:would it not be a horrible disaster if New Horizons got too close to Pluto and was slung out in a perfect trajectory to visit this object - would it not be a horrible disaster if New Horizons got too close to Pluto and was slung out in a perfect trajectory to visit this object
I believe the plan is that after New Horizons visits Pluto; it will look for other Kuiper Belt objects to study! 8-)

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by geckzilla » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:47 pm

orin stepanek wrote:
geckzilla wrote:I'm pretty sure that Makemake is a "dwarf planet" rather than a "dwarf not a planet" ... really not sure what all the fuss is. ;)
You know; ( and not to make a biggie out of it) there are dwarf people; and I like to address them as people and not dwarfs! I think it would be unkind! I feel that about planets! It's not really a big deal; but for some of us; Pluto will always be a full fledged planet! Sure it's smaller than some; but so what? Just because a group of astronomers waited till the majority of astronomers went home to cast their vote making dwarfs out of planets we probably haven't even discovered yet!
Well, then, I suppose you should stop classifying any object. Henceforth we shall not distinguish oranges from apples and all will be known simply as fruits.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by orin stepanek » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:43 pm

geckzilla wrote:I'm pretty sure that Makemake is a "dwarf planet" rather than a "dwarf not a planet" ... really not sure what all the fuss is. ;)
You know; ( and not to make a biggie out of it) there are dwarf people; and I like to address them as people and not dwarfs! I think it would be unkind! I feel that about planets! It's not really a big deal; but for some of us; Pluto will always be a full fledged planet! Sure it's smaller than some; but so what? Just because a group of astronomers waited till the majority of astronomers went home to cast their vote making dwarfs out of planets we probably haven't even discovered yet!

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by Ann » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:54 pm

I like the name, "Makemake". :D

As to how cratered this minor planet is, well, I guess that's anybody's guess until we've taken a closer look.

I find the red color fascinating. Pluto, too, is apparently quite red. But Pluto's large moon, Charon, is plain gray.

Fascinating! Image Image

Ann

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by cosmic creature » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:33 pm

I hate to nitpick, Robert, but it should be "farther", not "further".....

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by owlice » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:29 pm

I disagree with henrystar; the text clearly states this is an illustration and I think that's fine.

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:42 pm

satarbet wrote:After having read the description of what constitutes a dwarf planet, I find myself in the Allen Stern camp. I think that they should be included in the list of planets that orbit our sun. I see no reason why they shouldn't be and I'm not sure what the reluctance to do so is. I have never agreed with Pluto being dropped from the list. Scientific or romantic notion, I like the idea of discovering that there are more planets, whatever their size, orbiting the sun than we knew.
No worry. They are planets (as is Pluto). The definition of "planet" hasn't changed with the current IAU usage, simply how the term is used in in a certain narrow realm of scientific discussion... and even there, no consensus exists. It should be pretty obvious to any reasonable person that a "dwarf planet" can't be anything other than a type of planet!

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by ldecola » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:36 pm

i agree with henrystar: any APOD that's an artistic rendering (e.g. 2012 December 26 'Makemake of the Outer Solar System') should be clearly labeled as such in the title...

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by ta152h0 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:51 pm

would it not be a horrible disaster if New Horizons got too close to Pluto and was slung out in a perfect trajectory to visit this object - would it not be a horrible disaster if New Horizons got too close to Pluto and was slung out in a perfect trajectory to visit this object

Re: APOD: Makemake of the Outer Solar System (2012 Dec 26)

by neufer » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:49 pm

El Sniffo wrote:
Makemake's orbit is "much more tilted to the ecliptic plane" than Pluto's.
Does "tilted to" the ecliptic mean the same as "divergent from" it?
  • Possibly. (It depends what you mean by "divergent from" it.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake_%28dwarf_planet%29 wrote: <<Orbits of Makemake (blue), Haumea (green), contrasted with the orbit of Pluto (red) and the ecliptic (grey). The perihelia (q) and the aphelia (Q) are marked with the dates of passage. The positions on April 2006 are marked with the spheres illustrating relative sizes and differences in albedo and colour.>>

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