APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by mjimih » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:32 am

Instead of boring black, it's now a beautiful red n blue translucent cosmic jellyfish.

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by NoelC » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:57 pm

You're right, of course about the declination difference being the same everywhere. I had crossed up my RA and Dec when imaginin' lines in the sky...

I wus overthinkin' it. No horse sense.

-Noel

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by neufer » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:54 pm

NoelC wrote:
neufer wrote:
Same math but I used the Wikipedia size: 8 × 6 arcmins and assumed that "nose" to "mane" was the 8 arcmins.
I retrieved the Digitized Sky Survey image, which the chart program overlaid for me. Prior to this I had measured to the chart outline, which as you can see is a bit smaller than the extents of the actual nebula.

Subtracting the two declination measurements above, we get 4' 18.5" difference, or roughly 4.31'.

Since the horsehead is not far from the celestial equator (about 2.5 degrees),
I originally roughly equated the declination difference to the angular size of the object.
Declination differences exactly equate to the angular size of the object (at the same Right ascension).

Hence: 1500 * tan(4.31 / 60) ~ 1.9 light-years

(So much for Wikipedia's 8 × 6 arcmins.)
NoelC wrote:
So let's say a "best" guess is 2ish light years, nose to mane, or about 1300ish times the diameter of the orbit of pluto. Looked at another way, if the horsehead were displayed in an image where it was 1300 pixels wide, mostly filling a monitor screen, the space our solar system occupies (to the orbit of Pluto, to which our fastest spacecraft take years to reach) would be 1 pixel.

That's one big horse! :)
But not as big as some believe:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_a ... _and_miles

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by rstevenson » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:53 pm

Great figurin' Noel. :)

Based on that, and using a 1680 px wide version of the image, I did a screen capture and blew up a star, from the "forehead" part of the image, which happened to be 2 pixels wide - which at this scale should be a little larger than the Solar System. It's a bit startling to see how small our cosy little home is compared to this nebula!
horse_speck.jpg
Rob

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by NoelC » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:02 pm

neufer wrote:
NoelC wrote:
Markus Schwarz wrote: Same math but I used the Wikipedia size: 8 × 6 arcmins and assumed that "nose" to "mane" was the 8 arcmins.
An astronomer friend of mine once let on that pretty much all measurements in the cosmos are quite inexact - essentially best guesses.

That said, I just retraced my steps. Here's what I did... Note the declination measurements for the two points I've chosen in these sky chart program screen grabs:

Image

Image

This time I retrieved the Digitized Sky Survey image, which the chart program overlaid for me. Prior to this I had measured to the chart outline, which as you can see is a bit smaller than the extents of the actual nebula.

Subtracting the two declination measurements above, we get 4' 18.5" difference, or roughly 4.31'.

Since the horsehead is not far from the celestial equator (about 2.5 degrees), I originally roughly equated the declination difference to the angular size of the object. In fact, the angular size of an object will be progressively larger than the declination difference for objects as we move away from the equator and closer to the pole, so let's push the actual size a bit up further to 4.31 * (90 / 87.5), or 4.43 minutes of arc.

1500 * tan(4.43 / 60) == 1.9 light-years. This is assuming the 1500 light-year distance is correct and expressing the number in 2 significant digits makes sense, but in fact one can find estimates that go lower and higher (I found more lower than higher).

So let's say a "best" guess is 2ish light years, nose to mane, or about 1300ish times the diameter of the orbit of pluto. Looked at another way, if the horsehead were displayed in an image where it was 1300 pixels wide, mostly filling a monitor screen, the space our solar system occupies (to the orbit of Pluto, to which our fastest spacecraft take years to reach) would be 1 pixel.

That's one big horse! :)

-Noel

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by neufer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:29 pm

NoelC wrote:
Markus Schwarz wrote:
Can someone tell me the size of the Horsehead Nebula?
Excerpted from my book, [i]Star Vistas[/i]: wrote:To give you a sense of scale, the size of the horse "head" itself from the tip of the "nose" to "mane" is about 1.5 light-years, which is about 1,000 times the diameter of the orbit of Pluto around our Sun. That's one big horse!
Somehow I have come up with a different size than neufer.

I measured it to be 4 arc-minutes from nose to mane. If we assume it's about 1.5 thousand light-years from Earth, and is 4/60ths of a degree across, this math seems to express the width: 1500 * tan(4/60), which evaluates to about 1.7, so my 1.5 was a bit on the low side. But it still seems closer to 1.5 than 3. Did I go wrong somewhere?
Same math but I used the Wikipedia size: 8 × 6 arcmins and assumed that "nose" to "mane" was the 8 arcmins.

Perhaps we should really be using "hands."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse wrote:
<<The height of horses is measured at the highest point of the withers, where the neck meets the back. This point is used because it is a stable point of the anatomy, unlike the head or neck, which move up and down in relation to the body of the horse.The English-speaking world measures the height of horses in hands and inches: one hand is equal to 4 inches. The height is expressed as the number of full hands, followed by a point, then the number of additional inches, and ending with the abbreviation "h" or "hh" (for "hands high"). Thus, a horse described as "15.2 h" is 15 hands plus 2 inches, for a total of 62 inches in height.>>

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by NoelC » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:57 pm

Markus Schwarz wrote:Can someone tell me the size of the Horsehead Nebula?
Excerpted from my book, Star Vistas:
To give you a sense of scale, the size of the horse "head" itself from the tip of the "nose" to "mane" is about 1.5 light-years, which is about 1,000 times the diameter of the orbit of Pluto around our Sun. That's one big horse!
Somehow I have come up with a different size than neufer.

I measured it to be 4 arc-minutes from nose to mane. If we assume it's about 1.5 thousand light-years from Earth, and is 4/60ths of a degree across, this math seems to express the width: 1500 * tan(4/60), which evaluates to about 1.7, so my 1.5 was a bit on the low side. But it still seems closer to 1.5 than 3. Did I go wrong somewhere?

-Noel

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by neufer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:50 pm

lefthip wrote:
Spectacular, but can we have some context? How "big" is it anyhow?
About 3 light years wide.

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by neufer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:38 pm

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by epitalon » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:23 pm

thanks bystander

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by bystander » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:06 pm

epitalon wrote:Please can someone answer this question:

are they three channels of infrared seen in false colors,
or is it simply red channel replaced by infrared ?

Thanks
The image combines data from two infrared sources mapped to blue and orange.
[b][i]Hubble Heritage: Fast Facts[/i][/b] wrote:
WFC3/IR F110W (YJ) (blue)
WFC3/IR F160W (H) (orange)

See also: Hubble Heritage: Original Images

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by epitalon » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:56 pm

Please can someone answer this question:

are they three channels of infrared seen in false colors,
or is it simply red channel replaced by infrared ?

Thanks

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by lefthip » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:48 pm

Spectacular, but can we have some context? How "big" is it anyhow?

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by LocalColor » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:46 pm

Quote: "Horses and gas go together so well" - yup horses emit a lot of gas!

Lovely image and so happy that Hubble is still going after all these years.

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by Boomer12k » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:42 pm

SPOCK: Captain, I am detecting a horsehead shaped object dead ahead...

Captain Kirk: Sulu....Dead....slow....must....in...vesti...gate....ob...ject....

Sulu, (rolling his eyes): Aye, Captain.....Dead slow....(sigh)....

:D
:---[===] *

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by neufer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:39 pm

ta152h0 wrote:
Horses and gas go together so well, and obviously very photogenic. And as far as Hubble taking the image, what I meant is how does Hubble maintaing the aiming point so steady an image like this becomes possible ?
http://hubblesite.org/the_telescope/nut ... nting2.php
http://hubblesite.org/the_telescope/nut ... /pointing/

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by Boomer12k » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:37 pm

What a great shot...awesome detail...thanks Hubble...

Oh, hey, I got promoted to Commander...GREAT!!!

:---[===] *

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by geckzilla » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:33 pm

ta152h0 wrote:Horses and gas go together so well, and obviously very photogenic. And as far as Hubble taking the image, what I meant is how does Hubble maintaing the aiming point so steady an image like this becomes possible ?
Guide stars.
http://hubblesite.org/the_telescope/nut ... ments/fgs/

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by ta152h0 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:18 pm

Horses and gas go together so well, and obviously very photogenic. And as far as Hubble taking the image, what I meant is how does Hubble maintaing the aiming point so steady an image like this becomes possible ?

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by emc » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:02 pm

Beautiful IR detail of one of my favorite space objects. I still see the horse head and wonder at the "gaseous" detail.

Contrasting tail of recognition… I was driving the other day and thought I saw one of my neighbors walking down the street so I commenced to blow my horn and wave only to discover it was an alarmed/annoyed complete stranger.

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by josimac » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Simply amazing! Wonderful details! Especially all of the background galaxies above the "horse head"!

Thank you for sharing!!

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by Psnarf » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:35 pm

Happy Anniversary, Hubble! Kudos to all the unsung heroes who made that happen.
Awesome image.

The image of Barnard 33 in Dr. Neuendorffer's ESA lower right image does resemble a sea and/or land horse. However the Hubble Anniversary shot looks more like some kind of monster with wing-like ears, its mouth open displaying its two teeth.

(Good thing our ancient ancestors gave us the power to imagine shapes where there are none, if not just to escape being eaten by tigers lurking in the underbrush, much like Opus and Bill T. Cat laying in a field seeing patterns in cumulus clouds floating by, or Linus describing to Peanuts the intricate details of the Peloponnesian War that he sees in a similar cloud.)

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by neufer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:56 pm

geckzilla wrote:
userloser wrote:
Yet another childhood image destroyed by high definition. Looks nothing like a horsehead, and none of the old pictures will look like one anymore. The price of progress... :(
Actually, the familiar silhouette wasn't destroyed by high definition. By using infrared light, Hubble is able to see through certain parts of the nebula which are tenuous enough to let such light shine through. So we're able to see all of the hidden things behind (and within?) the horse's head.
Image

Re: APOD: The Horsehead Nebula in Infrared... (2013 Apr 22)

by stephen63 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:52 pm

ta152h0 wrote:What is it Hubble has to do to get an image like this ?
This is the optical path.
opt_path.jpg

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