APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by bystander » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:13 am

There is no liquid water on the surface of Titan.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by ems57fcva » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:19 pm

I think I will have what probably is the last word: The differences between pictures 1 and 3 can probably be chalked up to changing water levels and currents. However, the transient in picture 2 is another matter. Hopefully we will learn more about that over time.

In the meantime, it is neat to see another changeable world in this Solar System of ours.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Rothkko » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:41 pm

...Per Reverso Translation
Reverso Translation wrote:Level decrease more thaw? (Or another process that deforms the surface). The temporary space is more incongruous. The first two photographies (from left side to right) are consistent with this decrease, with few differences (the island in question might prove to be very different depending on that it is plunged or not). The photography of the right continues being consistent with the decrease (if we add the thaw), but there are many changes in the surface. It is supposed that the angle of the camera is the same with regard to the moon. And this line that crosses from left side to right the surface in the central photography, is one overlap of photographies?

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by BMAONE23 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:12 pm

Rothkko wrote:descenso de nivel más deshielo? (u otro proceso que deforme la superficie). Es más incongruente el lapso temporal. Las dos primeras fotografías (de izquierda a derecha) son consecuentes con ese descenso, con pocas diferencias (el islote en cuestión podría mostrarse muy distinto en función de que esté sumergido o no). La fotografía de la derecha sigue siendo consecuente con el descenso (si sumamos el deshielo), pero hay muchos cambios en la superficie. Se supone que el ángulo de la cámara es el mismo respecto a la luna. ¿Y esa línea que atraviesa de izquierda a derecha la superficie en la fotografía central, es un solape de fotografías?
Per Google Translate
Google Translate wrote:melting drawdown more? (or other process that deforms the surface). It's incongruous temporary period. The first two photos (left to right) are consistent with this decline, with few differences (the island in question would show very different depending on whether it is submerged or not). The photograph on the right is still consistent with the decrease (if we add the thaw), but there are many changes on the surface. It is assumed that the camera angle is the same for the moon. And that line from left to right through the surface in the central photograph is an overlap of photographs?

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Rothkko » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:45 pm

descenso de nivel más deshielo? (u otro proceso que deforme la superficie). Es más incongruente el lapso temporal. Las dos primeras fotografías (de izquierda a derecha) son consecuentes con ese descenso, con pocas diferencias (el islote en cuestión podría mostrarse muy distinto en función de que esté sumergido o no). La fotografía de la derecha sigue siendo consecuente con el descenso (si sumamos el deshielo), pero hay muchos cambios en la superficie. Se supone que el ángulo de la cámara es el mismo respecto a la luna. ¿Y esa línea que atraviesa de izquierda a derecha la superficie en la fotografía central, es un solape de fotografías?

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Nitpicker » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:43 pm

I didn't think that startreader was originally using "man" in place of "human", but it appears I was wrong. (I didn't know he was prejudiced against Vulcans, either.) I must have had my tin foil hat on too tightly.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by geckzilla » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:24 pm

Startreader wrote:"Man" means a male member of the dominant semi-intelligent species on Terra. It also means a unit of any tool-using, intelligent species, for example a Puppeteer, a Dalek or an ascended Ancient. In that sense, "man" includes the feminine, so using it to mean "an unspecified, general alien tool-user" was not gender specific. It is like using "whale" or "tree" or "worm". It is rather unfortunate that English can use the same word for the gender and the species but it does give us the opportunity for fun with words.
Both anthropocentric and sexist at the same time. Not trying very hard, are you?

I've personally never taken a phrase such as "All men are created equal" to include women. Clearly, the idea that "man" can include female humans was an afterthought on that one. Don't use a word ambiguously if you don't want people confused.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Startreader » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:55 pm

Ann wrote:
Startreader wrote:
I say "man" not to be sexist but because most crane drives are male and "man" would include aliens.
Hey, I have no problem with your assumption that a crane driver would usually be a man, but... aren't there female aliens?

As Mr Spock once said, It is a well-known fact that we Vulcans propagate our race by mail. :wink:

Ann

"Man" means a male member of the dominant semi-intelligent species on Terra. It also means a unit of any tool-using, intelligent species, for example a Puppeteer, a Dalek or an ascended Ancient. In that sense, "man" includes the feminine, so using it to mean "an unspecified, general alien tool-user" was not gender specific. It is like using "whale" or "tree" or "worm". It is rather unfortunate that English can use the same word for the gender and the species but it does give us the opportunity for fun with words.

On the subject of "Vulcans", I would prefer those did not propagate. They are one of the stupidest aliens ever invented, collectively and as represented by individuals. Only the Klingons surpass them in sheer idiocy. Vulcans are also immoral and evil.

But if the thing on Titan is a huge guy in a construction machine perhaps we should try to communicate with it. Can we modulate Cassini's radars enough to make them useful as talk-radio?

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Strangerbarry » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:20 pm

I'm thinking there could be a complex mixture of hydrocarbons in these lakes, including some higher molecular weight and branched chain molecules that are solid at the temperatures on Titan. If so, there may be dynamic and localized regions of frozen materials, the hydrocarbon equivalent of iceburgs. If temperature fluctuates then so too might they. In the picture here it looks to me like a region of solid material formed and then is slowly sinking. Raises the question as well about what the vertical termperature profile is of these hydrocarbon lakes, if they're warmer at depth then sinking solid hydrocarbon material might melt, rise to the surface through mixing, and feed more solid-formation closer to the surface. In looking at the pictures, it looks like it's not just the highlighted area that's changing, there appear to a lot of other more subtle changes taking place.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by DavidLeodis » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:02 pm

Nitpicker wrote:Note that the upper part of the middle image -- above what I assume is the black "stitching" line on an angle -- is identical to the upper part of the left image. Looks like they didn't capture the full field of view in 2013. Most of the differences in the images can probably be explained away as noise, but not the mysterious feature inside the ellipse. (North is to the image bottom-left, by the way.)
Hi Nitpicker.

In the information brought up through the 'featured image' link it states "The upper half of the middle image uses data from the April 26, 2007 Titan flyby. That area did not receive SAR coverage during the July 10, 2013 encounter, so the earlier data was used to fill-in the scene."

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by DavidLeodis » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:57 pm

Seeing the image brought up through the "Future observations" link made me :).

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Nitpicker » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:42 am

Ann wrote:
Startreader wrote:
I say "man" not to be sexist but because most crane drives are male and "man" would include aliens.
Hey, I have no problem with your assumption that a crane driver would usually be a man, but... aren't there female aliens?

As Mr Spock once said, It is a well-known fact that we Vulcans propagate our race by mail. :wink:

Ann
Not logical, Ann. Startreader's comment does not rule out the possibility of female aliens. And I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the interval over which this APOD was recorded -- seven years -- is the same interval experienced by Vulcans, in between bouts of their mating cycle hormone imbalance, pon farr.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Ann » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:20 am

Beyond wrote:
Ann wrote:As Mr Spock once said, It is a well-known fact that we Vulcans propagate our race by mail. :wink:
I must have missed that episode.
The Spock quote might have been in a Star Trek novel. I read tons of them in the 1980s. :oops:

Ann

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Beyond » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:53 am

Ann wrote:As Mr Spock once said, It is a well-known fact that we Vulcans propagate our race by mail. :wink:
I must have missed that episode.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Perk Cartel » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:00 am

I'm guessing "seasonal" ethane/methane cycle and/or tidal event affecting lake surface level relative to the lake edge terrain...

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Ann » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:56 am

Startreader wrote:
I say "man" not to be sexist but because most crane drives are male and "man" would include aliens.
Hey, I have no problem with your assumption that a crane driver would usually be a man, but... aren't there female aliens?

As Mr Spock once said, It is a well-known fact that we Vulcans propagate our race by mail. :wink:

Ann

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Nitpicker » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:56 am

Note that the upper part of the middle image -- above what I assume is the black "stitching" line on an angle -- is identical to the upper part of the left image. Looks like they didn't capture the full field of view in 2013. Most of the differences in the images can probably be explained away as noise, but not the mysterious feature inside the ellipse. (North is to the image bottom-left, by the way.)

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Maxim » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:23 pm

It's in a hydrocarbon SEA. The tides come in....the tides go out. Shallows cover up.....shallows appear.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Startreader » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:15 pm

APOD Robot wrote:Current origin speculative explanations include bubbling foam and floating solids, but no one is sure. Future observations may either resolve the enigma or open up more speculation.
The explanation is obvious: this is an image of a man driving a construction crane with his wiry little doggie in the left-hand seat. He has been bringing sand and stones and stuff to build a castle at the sea-shore. He's cold, so he's slow.

I say "man" not to be sexist but because most crane drives are male and "man" would include aliens. The shape is definitely a biped with two arms and a sensor stalk topped by a floppy cap. Possibly named "Bob".

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Kasuha » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:57 pm

Looks like a tidal effect to me with some feature very close to the liquid surface appearing and disappearing periodically. The shoreline appears lower in the (bottom right part of) second image (since upper left is copied from first image), then it is back up in the third image.

I wonder how was the feature oriented relative to Saturn in either of the three cases.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by kindness » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:46 pm

Maybe this 'lake' has a tide.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by dlw » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:56 pm

There seem to be quite a few changes. The most dramatic is, of course, the "island" but there are many others. I assume, since this is radar, that changes in lighting is not an explanation. Very interesting.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by Boomer12k » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:55 pm

Looks to me like there are LOTS of changes from left to right....too numerous to point out....

So...the place changes...it has a sea...an atmosphere...it is bound to be somewhat Dynamic....not the Static Universe some would suppose....

:---[===] *

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by MarkBour » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:08 pm

I'm suspecting the third image may have a focal difference from the other two. If not, then the changes are happening much more rapidly than in the first 6 years. 'Tis a great set of images. Hopefully over time we'll learn about dissolution/condensation processes on very cold methane seas.

Re: APOD: Mysterious Changing feature on Titan (2014 Oct 15)

by julianm3 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:07 pm

Thar be whales on Titan!

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