APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by starsurfer » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:54 pm

Josh Smith wrote:Would be nice to know of some more Northern targets that need to be examined more closely too!
There are a few mostly unknown haloes around northern PN but not as many as southern ones. The fairly recent IPHAS hydrogen alpha survey of the northern galactic plane was completed a few years ago, so I guess if someone went through the data, some new and unknown haloes could be discovered. I don't know of anyone working on this area.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by starsurfer » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:52 pm

Josh Smith wrote:
starsurfer wrote:Also the first PN halo was discovered in 1937 around NGC 6826 but nearly all the currently known haloes have been discovered in the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's. Another point to mention is that there are many faint PN haloes that haven't been officially published by professionals yet. Some good overviews are this paper by Bruce Balick and another by Romano Corradi. Other noteworthy publications are this one and this one. There will hopefully be a new collection this decade, a preview can be seen here.

Also I simply cannot resist including a list of some nice PN haloes:

IC 5148 by Don Goldman
Hen 2-111 by Don Goldman
NGC 5882 by CHART32
NGC 7009 by CHART32
M27 by Fabian Neyer and Robert Pölzl

Thanks for those examples! PN and the outer halos are my favorite targets. So much going on in them and a lot to learn about them as well as opportunities to help advance their understanding. Good to see a couple of examples with outer halos I wasn't aware of. I may have to spend a while on the Saturn one as I didn't realize there was a halo there. Very, very few examples of that out there.
There are lots of haloes out there but the majority of amateurs are unaware of them except PN obsessives. The one around the Saturn Nebula was discovered in 1998, see here. The CHART32 image might be the first amateur one to show it.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Josh Smith » Tue May 31, 2016 2:31 pm

Would be nice to know of some more Northern targets that need to be examined more closely too!

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Josh Smith » Tue May 31, 2016 2:29 pm

starsurfer wrote:Also the first PN halo was discovered in 1937 around NGC 6826 but nearly all the currently known haloes have been discovered in the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's. Another point to mention is that there are many faint PN haloes that haven't been officially published by professionals yet. Some good overviews are this paper by Bruce Balick and another by Romano Corradi. Other noteworthy publications are this one and this one. There will hopefully be a new collection this decade, a preview can be seen here.

Also I simply cannot resist including a list of some nice PN haloes:

IC 5148 by Don Goldman
Hen 2-111 by Don Goldman
NGC 5882 by CHART32
NGC 7009 by CHART32
M27 by Fabian Neyer and Robert Pölzl

Thanks for those examples! PN and the outer halos are my favorite targets. So much going on in them and a lot to learn about them as well as opportunities to help advance their understanding. Good to see a couple of examples with outer halos I wasn't aware of. I may have to spend a while on the Saturn one as I didn't realize there was a halo there. Very, very few examples of that out there.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Fred the Cat » Mon May 30, 2016 3:57 pm

The morphology of planetary nebulae catches my eye. Their shapes must reflect in why we see such a variety of shapes as the projection of the gaseous outflow is seen from different angles. Too bad we live in the "blink of a cat's eye"
Funny-Cat-Photos-Kitten-s-One-Eye-Closed-Is-It-Blinking-.jpg
or we might get to see the Nine Lives of the Cats Eye Nebula. :wink:

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Ann » Mon May 30, 2016 12:51 pm

neufer wrote:
FLPhotoCatcher wrote:
I notice that no one here has mentioned that the halo is hexagon shaped. How could that have happened?
:arrow: There is a suggestion of hexagonal symmetry in the inner Cat's Eye as well. They are probably related to each other.
Collimated outflows?

Ann

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by neufer » Mon May 30, 2016 11:00 am

FLPhotoCatcher wrote:
I notice that no one here has mentioned that the halo is hexagon shaped. How could that have happened?
:arrow: There is a suggestion of hexagonal symmetry in the inner Cat's Eye as well. They are probably related to each other.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by FLPhotoCatcher » Mon May 30, 2016 2:51 am

I notice that no one here has mentioned that the halo is hexagon shaped. How could that have happened?

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by starsurfer » Sun May 29, 2016 6:11 pm

Also the first PN halo was discovered in 1937 around NGC 6826 but nearly all the currently known haloes have been discovered in the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's. Another point to mention is that there are many faint PN haloes that haven't been officially published by professionals yet. Some good overviews are this paper by Bruce Balick and another by Romano Corradi. Other noteworthy publications are this one and this one. There will hopefully be a new collection this decade, a preview can be seen here.

Also I simply cannot resist including a list of some nice PN haloes:

IC 5148 by Don Goldman
Hen 2-111 by Don Goldman
NGC 5882 by CHART32
NGC 7009 by CHART32
M27 by Fabian Neyer and Robert Pölzl

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by geckzilla » Sun May 29, 2016 7:39 am

The name was fine for a long time. It's still fine now, just less so, due to its currently ambiguous nature.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Ann » Sun May 29, 2016 5:05 am

geckzilla wrote:
Tszabeau wrote:Are not planetary nebulae made up, in part, of the remains of any planets orbiting the exploding star? It seems only fitting then to refer to those type of nebulae as "planetary". IMHO
Not really. It's entirely possible the planets are still there orbiting more distantly from their parent star, but still there nonetheless. The name gets doubly confusing once you try to talk about protoplanetary nebulas, because it makes it sound like a nebula that forms planets rather than a nebula that is going to form a planetary nebula. The name is dumb, flat out. People stick with it because people are sentimental or just don't care to change it. I believe Nitpicker told me I was tilting at windmills last time I brought it up.
The name seems to have been coined by William Herschel, who was the first person in humanity (at least since the field of astronomy had been established) to discover a new planet. The planet was Uranus, which looks blue-green through a telescope. It is easy to understand that planets were all the rage after this sensational discovery, and Herschel himself was of course particularly excited.

Herschel conducted very ambitious all-sky surveys, and discovered many small roundish nebulas that were blue-green in color just like Uranus. They were of course the death shrouds of medium mass stars like the Cat's Eye Nebula, which glow blue-green from bright OIII emission. Herschel can be forgiven for thinking that they looked like Uranus, and he called them planetary nebulae.

Ann

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by geckzilla » Sun May 29, 2016 1:38 am

Tszabeau wrote:Are not planetary nebulae made up, in part, of the remains of any planets orbiting the exploding star? It seems only fitting then to refer to those type of nebulae as "planetary". IMHO
Not really. It's entirely possible the planets are still there orbiting more distantly from their parent star, but still there nonetheless. The name gets doubly confusing once you try to talk about protoplanetary nebulas, because it makes it sound like a nebula that forms planets rather than a nebula that is going to form a planetary nebula. The name is dumb, flat out. People stick with it because people are sentimental or just don't care to change it. I believe Nitpicker told me I was tilting at windmills last time I brought it up.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Tszabeau » Sat May 28, 2016 11:58 pm

Are not planetary nebulae made up, in part, of the remains of any planets orbiting the exploding star? It seems only fitting then to refer to those type of nebulae as "planetary". IMHO

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Taurus1932 » Sat May 28, 2016 10:57 pm

Chris Peterson,
Thanks much for the tips! Very kind.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Ann » Sat May 28, 2016 7:46 pm

APOD Robot wrote:
Planetary nebulae have long been appreciated as a final phase in the life of a sun-like star.
These sun-like stars may not always be so sun-like.
Temperature-Magnitude diagram for globular cluster M3.
Source: http://casswww.ucsd.edu/archive/physics/ph5/StevII.html
The graph at left of the temperature-magnitude diagram of globular cluster M3 suggests that this cluster still contains stars of the same spectral class as the Sun, even though M3 and its constituent stars are much older than the Sun. How old is M3? Opinions vary, but according to this paper M3 (also known as NGC 5272) is 11.39 billion years old. If that is correct, then the sun-like stars of M3 have survived for 11.39 billion years without even turning into red giants, much less into white dwarfs and planetary nebulas.

In other words, is there a single planetary nebula in the Milky Way that is the remnant of a once a truly sun-like star? Is there a single planetary nebula in the Local Group of galaxies that is the remnant of a star born with the mass of the Sun? Maybe not. Maybe at least 95% of all 1.0 solar mass hydrogen fusing stars ever born in the universe still survive?

Perhaps (almost) all planetary nebulas in the Local Group are remnants of stars that were born with more mass than the Sun. Perhaps the typical planetary nebulas that the universe has seen so far emanate from stars born as F-type main sequence stars, 1½ times as massive as the Sun, like Gamma Virginis, Porrima.

Ann

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Chris Peterson » Sat May 28, 2016 6:21 pm

Coil_Smoke wrote:Sometimes I wonder if the reds and blues ever correspond to the direction of movement relative to the observer ? Red areas from material moving away and blue compressed by rapid motion toward the camera. The idea may, may not, violate the rules of relativity but is based on Doppler physics.
The amount of red or blue shift that the Doppler effect creates is much too small to be visually apparent. On deep shots that cover cosmological distances, we can visually see the effect of cosmological redshift, although the choice of color mapping and the nature of the emitting object may not make that obvious in all cases.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Coil_Smoke » Sat May 28, 2016 6:18 pm

Sometimes I wonder if the reds and blues ever correspond to the direction of movement relative to the observer ? Red areas from material moving away and blue compressed by rapid motion toward the camera. The idea may, may not, violate the rules of relativity but is based on Doppler physics.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Chris Peterson » Sat May 28, 2016 5:57 pm

Taurus1932 wrote:Maybe someone can tell me if the APOD photos are at original resolution. I would like higher at times.
It's fun to select, copy and paste a detail for closer examination.
I found some interesting features in the recent Mars Rover picture.
The image you get when you click on the main page image is normally at the highest resolution provided by the image author. That may or may not be the original resolution. Sometimes there is a link to the webpage with the original image, and that one might be higher resolution than the APOD version.

In general, there are many possibilities and you just have to be a bit clever sometimes to track down higher resolution versions, assuming they even exist.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Taurus1932 » Sat May 28, 2016 5:28 pm

Maybe someone can tell me if the APOD photos are at original resolution. I would like higher at times.
It's fun to select, copy and paste a detail for closer examination.
I found some interesting features in the recent Mars Rover picture.
I'll check in daily to see any comments and thanks in advance!!!

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by Josh Smith » Sat May 28, 2016 2:51 pm

Thanks for the kind words everyone! The image's background, stars, and galaxies are all a straight LRGB blend. The PN is a bicolor HaOIII mixed with the RGB data with a mapping that slightly hued it towards blue. The natural look of the halo is a little more green than shown in the final image, but my preferred mapping of NB data is typically a little more blue.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by neufer » Sat May 28, 2016 1:24 pm

bls0326 wrote:
APOD wrote: " some 50 million light-years beyond the watchful planetary nebula, lies spiral galaxy NGC 6552."
Ann wrote: " According to Principal Galaxy Catalog, NGC 6552 may be about 350 million light-years away! "

Is the APOD distance missing a couple of zeros?
The APOD is missing a leading "3".

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by heehaw » Sat May 28, 2016 1:19 pm

I like the name planetary nebulae, because they do look like planets, somewhat, and because the name carries history with it! What an irony it is that the only reason Messier is truly remembered, and indeed is famous, is because ... of his list of 'uninteresting objects', i.e., fuzzy patches, such as planetary nebulae, that are not comets.

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by bls0326 » Sat May 28, 2016 12:17 pm

APOD wrote: "At an estimated distance of 3,000 light-years, the faint outer halo is over 5 light-years across."
APOD wrote: " some 50 million light-years beyond the watchful planetary nebula, lies spiral galaxy NGC 6552."
Ann wrote: " According to Principal Galaxy Catalog, NGC 6552 may be about 350 million light-years away! "

Is the APOD distance missing a couple of zeros? 300,000 vs 3,000 light years??

Brian

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by starsurfer » Sat May 28, 2016 11:49 am

geckzilla wrote:We could keep calling them PN for short, too. lol
I have never seen anything wrong with calling them planetary nebula!! An alternative name I can think of is lactea mortis nebulae?

Re: APOD: Cat's Eye Wide and Deep (2016 May 28)

by starsurfer » Sat May 28, 2016 11:48 am

Ann wrote:The object taking a bow in today's APOD is a planetary nebula! Starsurfer must be happy! :D

Ann
I'm really happy today! Actually doubly happy because it is a PN with a halo! :D

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