APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Ann » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:28 pm

MarkBour wrote:I find this image truly sublime. The coloring and the detail of the flows are fantastic! It would make a great poster.

It is my assumption that the imaged clouds of the nebula are mainly composed of material ejected from the star. Or are they by chance, mostly material that was in space near the star that its explosive shock-wave is pushing?
They would certainly come from the star. After all, when a planetary nebula is formed, half a solar mass of material or (much) more is typically ejected into space by the star.

But when stars are born, they often form small jets that hit the surrounding material and form bow shocks.
Newborn star with jets and bow shock (Herbig-Haro object).
(NASA, ESA, and M. Livio and the Hubble 20th Anniversary Team)
Wikipedia wrote:

Herbig–Haro (HH) objects are small patches of nebulosity associated with newly born stars, and are formed when narrow jets of gas ejected by those stars collide with nearby clouds of gas and dust at speeds of several hundred kilometres per second. Herbig–Haro objects are ubiquitous in star-forming regions, and several are often seen around a single star, aligned with its rotational axis.
This version of the same object as the one I posted a picture of clearly labels the bow shock a Herbig-Haro object (HH means Herbig-Haro).

But the Butterfly Nebula has no obvious bow shock. So we see no signs of surrounding matter that exists independently of the star being compressed by jets or outflows from the hot central star.
The Pleiades. NASA/ESA/AURA/Caltech.
The reason why we would see bow shocks near young stars is that there is typically a lot of surrounding gas and dust in the regions where star formation takes place. Planetary nebulas, by contrast, are old objects, where nothing remains of the natal cloud where the star originally was born. So for us to see a bow shock around a planetary nebula, it would have to produce strong outflows as the same time as it accidentally wandered into cosmic cloud, à la the Pleiades. Is the large Merope Nebula (to the lower right) something resembling a bow shock?

Ann

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by MarkBour » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:23 pm

I find this image truly sublime. The coloring and the detail of the flows are fantastic! It would make a great poster.

It is my assumption that the imaged clouds of the nebula are mainly composed of material ejected from the star. Or are they by chance, mostly material that was in space near the star that its explosive shock-wave is pushing?

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by neufer » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:21 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
starsurfer wrote:
She seems fun to hang out with.
Except for that whole Avada Kedavra thing. That will end a date real quick!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spells_in_Harry_Potter#Avada_Kedavra_.28Killing_Curse.29 wrote:
  • Avada Kedavra (Killing Curse):
    Causes instant, painless death to whomever the curse hits.
<<During an audience interview at the Edinburgh Book Festival (15 April 2004) Rowling said: "Does anyone know where Avada Kedavra came from? It is an ancient spell in Aramaic, and it is the original of Abracadabra, which means 'let the thing be destroyed'. Originally, it was used to cure illness and the 'thing' was the illness, but I decided to make it the 'thing' as in the person standing in front of me. I take a lot of liberties with things like that. I twist them round and make them mine." Rowling's use of this name may have been influenced by Latin cadaver = "corpse".>>

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by ta152h0 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:55 pm

it would be an adventure to get her in a car, not so much in a pickup truck ( subtle humor here )

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:30 pm

starsurfer wrote:She seems fun to hang out with.
Except for that whole Avada Kedavra thing. That will end a date real quick!

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by starsurfer » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:21 pm

neufer wrote:

Ann wrote:
So because the Butterfly Nebula is very irregularly shaped, it was likely produced by a relatively massive star. It is possible that Bellatrix in Orion will become such a massive and irregular white dwarf, if it doesn't explode as a supernova.
"Potter, you cannot win against me! I was and am the Dark Lord's most loyal servant. I learned the Dark Arts from him, and I know spells of such power that you, pathetic little boy, can never hope to compete!" —Bellatrix Lestrange
She seems fun to hang out with. :D

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by smitty » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:27 pm

Ann, Art, and Chris,
Thanks to all three of you for your very helpful comments! Makes me a wee bit ashamed, however, that I didn't do a little more research (e.g., Wikipedia) before posing my question! Thanks again for your patience and help.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by neufer » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:13 am


Ann wrote:
So because the Butterfly Nebula is very irregularly shaped, it was likely produced by a relatively massive star. It is possible that Bellatrix in Orion will become such a massive and irregular white dwarf, if it doesn't explode as a supernova.
"Potter, you cannot win against me! I was and am the Dark Lord's most loyal servant. I learned the Dark Arts from him, and I know spells of such power that you, pathetic little boy, can never hope to compete!" —Bellatrix Lestrange

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Ann » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:46 am

smitty wrote:Chris Peterson and Art Neuendorffer,
Thanks for your helpful explanations of what's going on here. It leads me to wonder now, however, why we do sometimes see spherical planetary nebulae? Apparently different initial conditions? Can we learn anything worthwhile from comparing these two different varieties of stellar evolution? Don't know, but might be worth looking into? Just asking is all.
Art has already answered this one by referring to Wikipedia, but I can't find his post, so I'm repeating what he said here.
Wikipedia wrote:
Starting from the 1990s, Hubble Space Telescope images have revealed many planetary nebulae to have extremely complex and varied morphologies. About one-fifth are roughly spherical, but the majority are not spherically symmetric. The mechanisms that produce such a wide variety of shapes and features are not yet well understood, but binary central stars, stellar winds and magnetic fields may play a role.
Wikipedia wrote:
(...) the majority of (planetary nebulae) belong to just three types: spherical, elliptical and bipolar. Bipolar nebulae are concentrated in the galactic plane, likely produced by relatively young massive progenitor stars; and bipolars in the galactic bulge appear to prefer orienting their orbital axes parallel to the galactic plane.[40] On the other hand, spherical nebulae are likely produced by the old stars similar to the Sun.
...
It has been determined that the more massive stars produce more irregularly shaped nebulae.
So because the Butterfly Nebula is very irregularly shaped, it was likely produced by a relatively massive star. It is possible that 9 solar mass star Bellatrix in Orion will produce a very irregular planetary nebula, if it doesn't explode as a supernova.

Ann

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by saturno2 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:26 am

Beautiful image

Off topic
Well, well
The before system of the image was best, indeed.
Thanks. Now i see the image in Google Chrome.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by TGr » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:55 pm

TGr March 8. 2017; 1513;
One beautiful image of an exploding star. It has that Familiar image of magnetic poles blossoming out from the explosion.is the Infra red exposure the reason for the clarity of the image?
TGr.





.

....
....k 9

[youtube][/youtube]

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:28 pm

smitty wrote:Chris Peterson and Art Neuendorffer,
Thanks for your helpful explanations of what's going on here. It leads me to wonder now, however, why we do sometimes see spherical planetary nebulae? Apparently different initial conditions? Can we learn anything worthwhile from comparing these two different varieties of stellar evolution?
These are all good questions, and they mirror the sort of questions that researchers are asking, and testing with simulations. At this point, there is probably more we don't know about the details of planetary nebula formation than what we do know. We have a solid broad picture, I think. But that's all.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by smitty » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:21 pm

Chris Peterson and Art Neuendorffer,
Thanks for your helpful explanations of what's going on here. It leads me to wonder now, however, why we do sometimes see spherical planetary nebulae? Apparently different initial conditions? Can we learn anything worthwhile from comparing these two different varieties of stellar evolution? Don't know, but might be worth looking into? Just asking is all.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:50 pm

smitty wrote:Could anyone please offer a science-based explanation for the apparently more-or-less bi-polar nature of the star's ejected material (as opposed to it being more spherical in nature)? Thanks!
Although the star itself is (largely) spherically symmetric, keep in mind that physically, the entire system is not. The star has both a spin axis and a magnetic axis. Both play important roles in the initial distribution of material- an asymmetry that can be further emphasized by fluid and electromagnetic interactions within the developing nebula.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by smitty » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:20 pm

Art Neuendorffer, thank you for this great reply! It makes sense of what otherwise seemed odd, indeed!

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Asterhole » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:18 pm

You can almost hear that star going "ka-blooie!" Except in space no one can hear that...

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by neufer » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:55 pm

smitty wrote:
Could anyone please offer a science-based explanation for the apparently more-or-less bi-polar nature of the star's ejected material (as opposed to it being more spherical in nature)? Thanks!
Equatorial ejecta runs into "a dense torus of dust" with possibly strong magnetic field lines embedded in it.

That ejecta is either stopped, slowed or deflected pole wards.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by neufer » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:50 pm

APOD Robot wrote:
Explanation: The bright clusters and nebulae of planet Earth's night sky are often named for flowers or insects. Though its wingspan covers over 3 light-years, NGC 6302 is no exception. With an estimated surface temperature of about 250,000 degrees C, the dying central star of this particular planetary nebula has become exceptionally hot, shining brightly in ultraviolet light but hidden from direct view by a dense torus of dust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGC_6302 wrote:
<<The spectrum of NGC 6302 shows that its central star is one of the hottest stars in the galaxy, with a surface temperature in excess of 200,000 K, implying that the star from which it formed must have been very large (cf. PG 1159 star). [Parents are strongly cautioned that some of the ultra-violent stellar material may be inappropriate for children under 1159.]>>

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by smitty » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Could anyone please offer a science-based explanation for the apparently more-or-less bi-polar nature of the star's ejected material (as opposed to it being more spherical in nature)? Thanks!

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by orin stepanek » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:57 pm

Beautiful Butterfly! :D

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by ta152h0 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:58 am

We are being " nebulized "

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by De58te » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:20 am

RocketRon wrote:And, independently of that, clicking "reprocessed colors" above brings up an image of a blue cat.

What is that all about ?
My guess is that cat is a Russian Blue cat.
Now I have never personally seen a Russian Blue in real life, so I had to look it up in Google Images. Their blue color is more drab. That picture has a bright vibrant blue color so they must have 'reprocessed the color'.

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Ann » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:06 am

APOD Robot wrote on January 4, 2007:

Left of Gamma Cyg and shaped like two glowing cosmic wings divided by a long dark dust lane, IC 1318's popular name is understandably the Butterfly Nebula.
Ann

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by Boomer12k » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:20 am

Just Think. Those processes led to US... our elements... our planet... our star and system... we were a BEAUTIFUL BUTTERFLY....

:---[===] *

Re: APOD: The Butterfly Nebula from Hubble (2017 Feb 08)

by RocketRon » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:32 am

And, independently of that, clicking "reprocessed colors" above brings up an image of a blue cat.

What is that all about ?

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