APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Chris Peterson » Thu May 11, 2017 4:41 am

Ann wrote:Oh, the picture I posted now is fine! There is no "å" in the address. The picture I tried to post, and failed to, had an "å" in its address. That was a few years ago.
The problem wouldn't have been with the address. The character is valid. But software such as what's behind this forum sanitizes various inputs and links in order to avoid exploits. That sanitization involves replacing some characters and escaping others. That might break some links within the forum. But this board seems now to be handling those characters in links just fine.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Ann » Thu May 11, 2017 4:35 am

Nitpicker wrote:Ann, I can google that same blåsippa image, but it gives a different URL. Probably something to do with Google's Blogger service.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KnvpKDIbrmY/T ... GP3297.JPG

But what was the link that contained the "å"? I feel like there must be an even prettier picture of a blåsippa, out on which I am missing.
Oh, the picture I posted now is fine! There is no "å" in the address. The picture I tried to post, and failed to, had an "å" in its address. That was a few years ago.

Ann

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by neufer » Thu May 11, 2017 4:30 am

Nitpicker wrote:
neufer wrote:
You are weird! (I really expected this one to go over the heads of you & Ann.)
It would have gone over my head, but I was curious to know who spoke the words you attributed to Ann and me. So I googled the phrase "You have an entire staff to really vet these things" and subsequently found the CNN article at the top of the list. Thank you again, Google.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-us-australia-health-care/ wrote:
<<(CNN) Hours after scoring a victory in the House to effectively kill Obamacare, US President Donald Trump praised Australia's universal health care system during a press conference with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. "It's going to be fantastic health care," Trump said, referring to his new health care plan. "I shouldn't say this to our great gentleman and my friend from Australia because you have better health care than we do."

US Senator Bernie Sanders quickly picked up on the remark which came after Trump's new bill passed by a handful of votes. The new law still has to pass the US Senate. "Well Mr President, you're right, in Australia and every other major country on Earth they guarantee health care to all people. They don't throw 24 million people off health insurance. So maybe when we get to the Senate we should start off with looking at the Australian health care system," Sanders told CNN's Anderson Cooper.>>

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Thu May 11, 2017 3:42 am

In my FTL spaceship, the 4-D navman operates at all speeds. It plugs into the cigarette lighter socket. The maps can be a bit sketchy at times/places, though.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Guest » Thu May 11, 2017 2:55 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
chuckster wrote:How far from our Sun would a spacecraft have to travel, before the constellations began to change ? What would be the first ones to distort ?
The stars are quite close, ranging from about 60-120 ly. So you'd only need to move a few light years before some distortion was quite apparent, and a few tens of light years for it to be so severe you wouldn't easily recognize the asterism anymore.

Google 3d big dipper and you'll get quite a few animations and images that show the stars of the Dipper from different angles.
Great visualization of the 3D reality of the Big Dipper there! Thanks for the link.
Since NASA seems to always know ahead of time what face of a planet will be presented to a spacecraft's cameras (or landing sequence) at showtime, or when an Iridium Flare will occur, etc, I figure future FTL craft will have computer simulations of the more 'stable' Constellations running all the time. When the ship returns to sublight, there will be a navigational model that matches what its Nav telescopes are seeing, somewhere in memory, and it can figure out where the ship is, regardless of reference point distortions caused by distance.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Thu May 11, 2017 2:01 am

Ann, I can google that same blåsippa image, but it gives a different URL. Probably something to do with Google's Blogger service.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KnvpKDIbrmY/T ... GP3297.JPG

But what was the link that contained the "å"? I feel like there must be an even prettier picture of a blåsippa, out on which I am missing.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Thu May 11, 2017 1:42 am

neufer wrote:You are weird! (I really expected this one to go over the heads of you & Ann.)
It would have gone over my head, but I was curious to know who spoke the words you attributed to Ann and me. So I googled the phrase "You have an entire staff to really vet these things" and subsequently found the CNN article at the top of the list. Thank you again, Google.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Ann » Thu May 11, 2017 1:29 am

neufer wrote:
Nitpicker wrote:
My mistake. I didn't think it necessary to admit that I didn't read any of the legislation in the recent Republican health care bill in your fair union. God Save the Queen.
You are weird! (I really expected this one to go over the heads of you & Ann.)
Ah! Thanks for the translation, Nit! (And... yes, it went over my head. Ooops.)
[c]Hepatica nobilis, "blåsippa" in Swedish.
Photo: Urban Rundström.[/c]
And this will be my last word on long urls. I don't suppose you've noted my love of posting pictures? Well, I was trying to post a lovely picture of a spring flower known as "blåsippa" in Swedish - ~"blue anemone" in English, I suppose - and the address to the picture contained that darned "å". I was utterly unable to post it as a picture, although I could have posted it as a link, I know. But hey, the impact of a picture is so much more in your face than a boring link!!!

Ann

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by neufer » Thu May 11, 2017 1:18 am

Nitpicker wrote:
My mistake. I didn't think it necessary to admit that I didn't read any of the legislation in the recent Republican health care bill in your fair union. God Save the Queen.
You are weird! (I really expected this one to go over the heads of you & Ann.)

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Wed May 10, 2017 11:48 pm

neufer wrote: Ann, who has criticized the URL, said she attempted to read the entire URL but failed to get through some of the details. "I wouldn't say -- yes," she told Nitpicker, "I turned through every page. As to whether or not I got through some of the details on some of the pages, no. But, yes, I attempted to read the entire URL."

Nitpicker admits he didn't read the full URL before posting it. Nitpicker said that since he was mostly concerned with edits to the URL, which didn't work the first time, so he paid the most attention to the edits needed to make it work. But he depended on his staff for most of the URL. "I read it as thoroughly as I could," he said. "You have an entire staff to really vet these things."
My mistake. I didn't think it necessary to admit that I didn't read any of the legislation in the recent Republican health care bill in your fair union. God Save the Queen.

Trigger Warning! The following link may contain enough characters to be considered bothersome:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/05/polit ... alth-care/

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Wed May 10, 2017 11:14 pm

Thanks, but I specifically wanted the link to open up the image in Google Maps (which is the tool I spent too much time finding it with -- there are a lot of lakes and volcanoes in northern Chile), as I wanted to show it all in one fell swoop.

And in this context, I tend to prefer direct links, in all their ugly glory, rather than tiny or tidy links, and not just because they are quicker to add (I did test it, too). Maybe I'm weird? Apologies to those I've bothered.

I was also rushing a bit, as I was in the process of correcting myself before anyone else. I also felt another sense or urgency, as a more experienced passenger on The Starship, was starting to makes waves about potential fakery in this APOD. I remain your obedient (and hopefully useful) passenger.

Love,
Nitpicker.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by bystander » Wed May 10, 2017 4:42 pm

Nitpicker wrote:
Edit Correction: Laguna Lejia: https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1shttp:%2F%2Fwww.mountainphotography.com%2Fimages%2Fxl%2F20111015-Laguna-Lejia-Dawn.jpg!2e7!3e27!6s%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2Fk7uwE-rmd6dYjcE-JrJDK54ztf1WsgyLMYG4I3d_ALRajPLWtlY9XTPaPvLJJN4synjd_DzN6srAG7xY49T3w-mFYsEJJn0Hf_Nbu1N0mZGyDllHdU7fGP_XoUHinU2boBscwLHDPaZRn6y9BTQFtFoALEQVyZM%3Dw203-h135-k-no!7i1200!8i800!4m5!3m4!1s0x96a8393929418c3b:0x4dd31bbfdeeb088c!8m2!3d-23.4956101!4d-67.6930468!6m1!1e1

If you just wanted the image, you could extract that from the google garbage
http://www.mountainphotography.com/imag ... a-Dawn.jpg

If you wanted the map, too, you could add the simplified map url. (You'll probably have to hit refresh)
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... a,75y,90t/

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Chris Peterson » Wed May 10, 2017 4:17 pm

Ann wrote:
Nitpicker wrote:Hi Ann,
So long as long URLs work, they don't bother me at all. I take it they bother you?
Well... yes, they turn me off a bit.

Also I don't trust them. Why are they so long? Do they contain anything, among their confusion of signs and letters, that may cause the link to break in the future?
Any URL may break in the future. Long URLs are typically so because they contain a lot of data being passed to the page. But all you need to worry about is the stuff up to the end of the top level domain.
As a Swede, I have to pay attention to the addresses of pictures I want to post. Any Swedish å, ä, and ö:s are no-nos is English-language addresses. And you can't even turn them into urls.
Why not? All those characters are allowed in URLs, even in the domain name. If you can copy and paste it, anybody can click on it and get to the page. For example, http://www.clasohlson.com/se/Lödstation ... 40/40-9376
But I can see your point about tiny urls possibly hiding something, suicidejunkie... although I couldn't find your tidy, honest, unhidden url.
It's a valid concern. I'm cautious about clicking on any shortened URL.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by neufer » Wed May 10, 2017 3:59 pm

Ann wrote:
Nitpicker wrote:
I think the volcanoes and lake have perhaps been misidentified. The author's Instagram page suggests the location to be San Pedro de Atacama, which is very close to the Tropic of Capricorn. I suspect this APOD looks northwards over Laguna Miscanti, but I haven't yet positively identified the location.

Edit Correction: Laguna Lejia: https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... 68!6m1!1e1
Tiny url?
http://tinyurl.com]TinyURL.com wrote:
The following URL: https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... 68!6m1!1e1
has a length of 525 characters and resulted in the following
TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters: http://tinyurl.com/mlxwf4y
Ann, who has criticized the URL, said she attempted to read the entire URL but failed to get through some of the details. "I wouldn't say -- yes," she told Nitpicker, "I turned through every page. As to whether or not I got through some of the details on some of the pages, no. But, yes, I attempted to read the entire URL."

Nitpicker admits he didn't read the full URL before posting it. Nitpicker said that since he was mostly concerned with edits to the URL, which didn't work the first time, so he paid the most attention to the edits needed to make it work. But he depended on his staff for most of the URL. "I read it as thoroughly as I could," he said. "You have an entire staff to really vet these things."

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Ann » Wed May 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Nitpicker wrote:Hi Ann,

So long as long URLs work, they don't bother me at all. I take it they bother you?
Well... yes, they turn me off a bit.

Also I don't trust them. Why are they so long? Do they contain anything, among their confusion of signs and letters, that may cause the link to break in the future?

As a Swede, I have to pay attention to the addresses of pictures I want to post. Any Swedish å, ä, and ö:s are no-nos is English-language addresses. And you can't even turn them into urls. :(

But I can see your point about tiny urls possibly hiding something, suicidejunkie... although I couldn't find your tidy, honest, unhidden url.

Ann

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by suicidejunkie » Wed May 10, 2017 2:58 pm

Nitpicker wrote:Hi Ann,
So long as long URLs work, they don't bother me at all. I take it they bother you?
Personally, tiny urls bother me. What are they trying to hide and what spying is going on when all traffic bounces through tinyurl.com?

There's much better ways to do it (that we've always had available) anyways:
Tidy caption with honest, unhidden URL

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by neufer » Wed May 10, 2017 5:46 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguas_Calientes_(volcano) wrote: <<Aguas Calientes Volcano or Cerro Aguas Calientes, also called Simba, is a cone-shaped stratovolcano located 5 kilometres east of the Lascar volcano and 10 kilometres north of Laguna Lejía, Chile. One summit lava flow may be of Holocene age, but no evidence of historical activity is found. The volcano has a well formed summit crater. A small crater lake is found within the Aguas Calientes summit crater, making it one of the highest lakes in the world at an altitude of 5,870 metres. The lake has a surface area of 2,500 square metres and is tinged red from a population of microorganisms. The lake water is acidic and is frequently influenced by activity from Lascar, with winds carrying sulfuric acid and water vapour clouds to the crater lake. Precipitation was measured at 146 millimetres per year with most precipitation falling during the winter months, and strong UV irradiation. The lake has a bacterial ecosystem that is primarily reliant on photosynthesis but may also be influenced by hydrothermal activity from Aguas Calientes volcano. Research has found only limited numbers of bacterial taxa and a large number of DNA sequences that can't be identified as known phylogenetic groups. The lake has been studied as a possible terrestrial analogy to Mars.>>
http://highlakes.seti.org/ wrote:

High Lakes 2006 Scince Expedition.
CAPTAIN'S LOG #5: A Wonderful Nightmare...

<<Everybody is on the [Aguas Calientes Volcano] summit rim now, inside the crater. I cannot help it, I take a few steps forward. I want to see that lake. I hope it is worth all what we left on the slope. Worth? I am speechless. In front of my eyes, another crown jewel unravels, a magnificent ruby, a gem in the heart of an unlikely jewel box. What a beauty...The lake is so red that depending on the angles we look at it, it turns sometimes purple. It is now time to get into the crater and to the shores of this lake. Let's get acquainted. But before, I am taking a GPS measurement of the altitude. Including the lava cliff, Aguas Calientes towers at 5,930 m. The lake is at 5,870 m.

The red lake is about the size of that of Licancabur but rounder, almost looking like a red balloon. Its shores are circled by white deposits and the signs of a few ancient shorelines that are still marked on the ground. I take my poles and start walking around the lake, a first survey to see what is interesting and would be worth coming back to in a moment. Right away, some details are striking me: There is no life visible to the naked eye, conversely to Licancabur; There is no green algae, no algae at all for that matter. I continue. There is a small channel coming down from the rim. There is a little bit of ice still in it. I suppose that it is created seasonally by snow melt. That will be a place to come back to, especially the site where it connects with the lake.>>

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Wed May 10, 2017 4:46 am

Hi Ann,

So long as long URLs work, they don't bother me at all. I take it they bother you?

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Ann » Wed May 10, 2017 3:54 am

Nitpicker wrote:I think the volcanoes and lake have perhaps been misidentified. The author's Instagram page suggests the location to be San Pedro de Atacama, which is very close to the Tropic of Capricorn. I suspect this APOD looks northwards over Laguna Miscanti, but I haven't yet positively identified the location.

Edit Correction: Laguna Lejia: https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... 68!6m1!1e1
Tiny url?
TinyURL.com wrote:

The following URL:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... 68!6m1!1e1

has a length of 525 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters:

http://tinyurl.com/mlxwf4y
Ann

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Nitpicker » Tue May 09, 2017 11:33 pm

I think the volcanoes and lake have perhaps been misidentified. The author's Instagram page suggests the location to be San Pedro de Atacama, which is very close to the Tropic of Capricorn. I suspect this APOD looks northwards over Laguna Miscanti, but I haven't yet positively identified the location.

Edit Correction: Laguna Lejia: https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Le ... 68!6m1!1e1

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Chris Peterson » Tue May 09, 2017 7:53 pm

chuckster wrote:How far from our Sun would a spacecraft have to travel, before the constellations began to change ? What would be the first ones to distort ?
The stars are quite close, ranging from about 60-120 ly. So you'd only need to move a few light years before some distortion was quite apparent, and a few tens of light years for it to be so severe you wouldn't easily recognize the asterism anymore.

Google 3d big dipper and you'll get quite a few animations and images that show the stars of the Dipper from different angles.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by chuckster » Tue May 09, 2017 7:26 pm

How far from our Sun would a spacecraft have to travel, before the constellations began to change ? What would be the first ones to distort ?

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by neufer » Tue May 09, 2017 5:30 pm

Case wrote:
Ursa Minor is of course home to some of the great galactic publishing and media corporations, such as Megadodo Publications.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_in_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Megadodo_Publications wrote:
<<Megadodo Publications are the original publishers of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The company's headquarters were located on Ursa Minor Beta, in a pair of 30-story office buildings connected partway up their height by a walkway, so that the entire structure resembled a giant letter H. The relocation of the offices to a resort planet caused the company to lose much of its credibility among its customer base. One of the buildings was uprooted by a squadron of Frogstar fighters and brought to the Frogstar, in an attempt to capture and discipline rogue Galactic President Zaphod Beeblebrox. The Megadodo lobby is always filled with grubby-looking hitchhikers wanting to complain about the Guide's many inaccuracies. The president of Megadodo Publications is Zarniwoop, who is always too cool to see visitors. Megadodo was criticized by its customers for setting up an artificial universe in order to allow its editors and contributors to collect book information without leaving their offices. Notably secretive (or destructive) about their financial and historical records, the entire company was later (in the novel Mostly Harmless) bought out by Infinidim Enterprises, which stopped selling the Guide to hitchhikers entirely and eliminated all of what Megadodo had once stood for, much to the disapproval of employee Ford Prefect. The takeover was, in fact, part of a new plan by the Vogons to destroy Earth in all possible parallel dimensions – a plan that eventually succeeded.>>

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by Case » Tue May 09, 2017 4:41 pm

Image
RocketRon wrote:
APOD Robot wrote:Connecting two stars in the far part of the Big Dipper will lead one to Polaris, the North Star,
Only if viewed in the Northern Hemisphere! Chile is rather in the Southern Hemisphere.
The two bright stars in the Big Dipper to use are Dubhe (α UMa, second brightest in UMa) and Merak (β UMa, fifth brightest), here on the left side of the ‘cup’. At 18.24° South, Polaris is 18.43° below the horizon, when the Big Dipper is up (showing that Polaris is a little off from the exact north celestial pole).
The distance ratio between these stars is 5.3:1 (28.7° to 5.4°), often cited as 5×, as that is enough precision to find Polaris in northern skies.

The brightness of Polaris is somewhere in between the brightness of Dubhe and Merak, but they’re all in the same ballpark (1.98 - 1.79 - 2.37).

Ursa Minor is of course home to some of the great galactic publishing and media corporations, such as Megadodo Publications.

Re: APOD: Big Dipper Above and Below Chilean... (2017 May 09)

by neufer » Tue May 09, 2017 3:01 pm

Nitpicker wrote:
I must have misunderestimated (don't y'all miss Dubya) the position of the horizon.
  • Dubya the second-dimmest president of the United States...YES :!:
    Dubhe the second-brightest star of Ursa Major (~ 5° above the horizon here)... no.
Note: Ursa Major is definitely too low on the horizon and the mirror image is too accurate (i.e., the mountains
should obscure more of the lower stars in the lake reflection) to wonder about some Photoshopping here.
Nitpicker wrote:
I figured the lagoon to be a bit further south than 18°.
  • World's highest lagoon :?:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=lagoon wrote:
lagoon (n.) 1670s, lagune, earlier laguna (1610s), "area of marsh or shallow, brackish water beside a sea but separated from it by dunes," from French lagune or directly from Italian laguna "pond, lake," from Latin lacuna "pond, hole," from lacus "pond" (see lake (n.1)). Originally in reference to the region of Venice. The word was applied 1769 (by Capt. Cook) to the lake-like stretch of water enclosed in a South Seas atoll.

lake (n.1) "body of water surrounded by land and filling a depression or basin," early 12c., from Old French lack (12c., Modern French lac) and directly from Latin lacus "pond, pool, lake," also "basin, tank, reservoir" (related to lacuna "hole, pit"), from PIE *laku- "body of water, lake, sea" (source also of Greek lakkos "pit, tank, pond," Old Church Slavonic loky "pool, puddle, cistern," Old Irish loch "lake, pond"). The common notion is "basin."

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