Cat 6?

Off topic discourse and banter encouraged.
BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Cat 6?

Post by BDanielMayfield » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 pm

With hurricane Dorian currently blowing with sustained winds of 185 mph, it being able to grow to Cat 5 last night, as well as it being able to still intensify while the eye is partially over land (islands of northern Bahamas), is there a need to add a level to the Saffir–Simpson scale?

Bruce
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16451
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: Cat 6?

Post by neufer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:40 am

BDanielMayfield wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 pm

With hurricane Dorian currently blowing with sustained winds of 185 mph, it being able to grow to Cat 5 last night, as well as it being able to still intensify while the eye is partially over land (islands of northern Bahamas), is there a need to add a level to the Saffir–Simpson scale?
  • If they didn't do it for Patricia there's no reason to start now:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Patricia wrote:
<<With maximum sustained winds of 215 mph and a minimum pressure of 872 mbar, Hurricane Patricia is the second-most intense tropical cyclone ever observed, just shy of Typhoon Tip in 1979 which had a minimum pressure of 870 mbar. It is also the strongest tropical cyclone ever recorded in the Western Hemisphere. It exceeded the previous sustained wind record of 190 mph set by Hurricane Allen in 1980 and the pressure record of 882 mbar set by Hurricane Wilma in 2005, both in the Atlantic basin. Reconnaissance also found a pressure gradient of 24 mbar per nautical mile early on October 23, among the steepest gradients ever observed in a tropical cyclone.

On a global scale, Patricia's one-minute maximum sustained winds rank as the highest ever reliably observed or estimated globally in a tropical cyclone, surpassing Typhoon Haiyan of 2013, although the intensity of Haiyan was only estimated via satellite imagery. Since no aircraft reconnaissance was available for Haiyan, the record set by Patricia is uncertain and comparing the intensities of the two storms is problematic. According to the World Meteorological Organization, Typhoon Nancy of 1961 also produced 215 mph sustained winds; however, it is widely accepted that Western Pacific reconnaissance during the 1940s to 1960s overestimated cyclone intensity and Nancy's record is considered questionable. The most powerful wind gust produced by a tropical cyclone, as well as the highest non-tornadic winds ever recorded, is still retained by Cyclone Olivia in 1996: 253 mph (407 km/h) was observed on Barrow Island, Western Australia.>>
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: Cat 6?

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:50 am

I don't believe they made a 6 yet! Maybe the storms need to be reclassified!
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Re: Cat 6?

Post by BDanielMayfield » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:25 am

orin stepanek wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:50 am
I don't believe they made a 6 yet! Maybe the storms need to be reclassified!
It's a good thing that "they" can't, or hurricanes and other extreme weather phenomena would have been weaponized. But a case can be made for reclassifying some of the strongest tropical cyclones. Note this from wikipedia's Saffir-Simpson scale article:
"Categories 6 and 7"

After the series of powerful storm systems of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, as well as after Hurricane Patricia, a few newspaper columnists and scientists brought up the suggestion of introducing Category 6, and they have suggested pegging Category 6 to storms with winds greater than 174 or 180 mph (78 or 80 m/s; 151 or 156 kn; 280 or 290 km/h).[7][19] Fresh calls were made for consideration of the issue after Hurricane Irma in 2017,[20] which was the subject of a number of seemingly credible false news reports as a "Category 6" storm,[21] partly in consequence of so many local politicians using the term. Only a few storms of this intensity have been recorded. Of the 35 hurricanes currently considered to have attained Category 5 status in the Atlantic, 19 had wind speeds at 175 mph (78 m/s; 152 kn; 282 km/h) or greater and only eight had wind speeds at 180 mph (80 m/s; 160 kn; 290 km/h) or greater (the 1935 Labor Day hurricane, Allen, Gilbert, Mitch, Rita, Wilma, Irma, and Dorian). Of the 18 hurricanes currently considered to have attained Category 5 status in the eastern Pacific, only five had wind speeds at 175 mph (78 m/s; 152 kn; 282 km/h) or greater (Patsy, John, Linda, Rick, and Patricia), and only three had wind speeds at 180 mph (80 m/s; 160 kn; 290 km/h) or greater (Linda, Rick, and Patricia). Most storms which would be eligible for this category were typhoons in the western Pacific, most notably Typhoon Tip in 1979, with sustained winds of 190 mph (310 km/h),[22] and typhoons Haiyan and Meranti in 2013 and 2016, respectively, each with sustained winds of 195 mph (314 km/h). Occasionally, suggestions of using even higher wind speeds as the cutoff have been made. In a newspaper article published in November 2018, NOAA research scientist Jim Kossin said that the potential for more intense hurricanes was increasing as the climate warmed, and suggested that Category 6 would begin at 195 mph (87 m/s; 169 kn; 314 km/h), with a further hypothetical Category 7 beginning at 230 mph (100 m/s; 200 kn; 370 km/h).[23]

According to Robert Simpson, there are no reasons for a Category 6 on the Saffir–Simpson Scale because it is designed to measure the potential damage of a hurricane to human-made structures. Simpson stated that "... when you get up into winds in excess of 155 mph (249 km/h) you have enough damage if that extreme wind sustains itself for as much as six seconds on a building it’s going to cause rupturing damages that are serious no matter how well it's engineered."[3] Nonetheless, the counties of Broward and Miami-Dade in Florida have building codes that require that critical infrastructure buildings be able to withstand Category 5 winds.[24]
If localities are going to have building codes requiring Cat 5 resistance then it seems that at least one more level to the scale might make sense. As to Art's point about Patricia, historians revise the way events are classified if there is good reason to do so, occasionally. I think the increasing frequency of very strong hurricanes is a good reason.

Bruce
Last edited by BDanielMayfield on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: Cat 6?

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:33 pm

I don't know why 5 was thought to be the top! Maybe; someday; higher categories? Why not? :mrgreen: :b:
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16451
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: Cat 6?

Post by neufer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:06 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
orin stepanek wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:33 pm


I don't know why 5 was thought to be the top!

Maybe; someday; higher categories?

Why not? :mrgreen: :b:
Don't be so overly dramatic about it :kitty:
Art Neuendorffer

BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Re: Cat 6?

Post by BDanielMayfield » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:24 pm

It was good to see that Dorian had diminished somewhat to 165 mph overnight. Hopefully it has reached its peak and it won't regain strength.
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: Cat 6?

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:51 pm

neufer wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:06 pm
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
orin stepanek wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:33 pm


I don't know why 5 was thought to be the top!

Maybe; someday; higher categories?

Why not? :mrgreen: :b:
Don't be so overly dramatic about it :kitty:
Aww; comon! I had cats that lived several years past 5! They roamed all night and slept all day! Oops: wrong cat! Dang; they won't let me add any smilies!
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: Cat 6?

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:07 am

OK! I hope everyone survives The hurricane! saw on the news tonight where a woman was rescuing dogs that were left to fend for themselves! :shock:
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: Cat 6?

Post by orin stepanek » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:33 am

LOOKS LIKE DORIAN MAY FINALLY BE GETTING READY TO LEAVE! The darn hurricane sure took it's time! Hope for a quick recovery for the people affected!
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2598
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Dartmouth, NS, Canada

Re: Cat 6?

Post by rstevenson » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:38 pm

It's not quite ready to leave yet, Orin. It'll be arriving here in a few hours. Only a Cat 1 now, but still likely to cause damage. Center is going to pass almost overhead!

Rob

BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Re: Cat 6?

Post by BDanielMayfield » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:59 pm

rstevenson wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:38 pm
It's not quite ready to leave yet, Orin. It'll be arriving here in a few hours. Only a Cat 1 now, but still likely to cause damage. Center is going to pass almost overhead!

Rob
Be glad that they are weak and fast moving up in your latitudes Rob.

Bruce
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16451
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: Cat 6?

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:00 pm

rstevenson wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:38 pm

It's not quite ready to leave yet, Orin. It'll be arriving here in a few hours.
Only a Cat 1 now, but still likely to cause damage.
Center is going to pass almost overhead!
You live in Alabama :?: :?
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2598
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Dartmouth, NS, Canada

Re: Cat 6?

Post by rstevenson » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:36 pm

neufer wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:00 pm
rstevenson wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:38 pm

It's not quite ready to leave yet, Orin. It'll be arriving here in a few hours.
Only a Cat 1 now, but still likely to cause damage.
Center is going to pass almost overhead!
You live in Alabama :?: :?
Nova Scotia. I posted that at 9:38 Saturday morning, and yes, that was a few hours before it hit here. And yes, it was a category 1 -- a strong 1, almost a 2 -- when it reached shore, though it quickly degenerated to a tropical storm as it lost its warm ocean power source.

Rob

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16451
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: Cat 6?

Post by neufer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:35 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
rstevenson wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:36 pm
neufer wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:00 pm
rstevenson wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:38 pm

It'll be arriving here in a few hours.
Center is going to pass almost overhead!
You live in Alabama :?:
Nova Scotia. I posted that at 9:38 Saturday morning, and yes, that was a few hours before it hit here. And yes, it was a category 1 -- a strong 1, almost a 2 -- when it reached shore, though it quickly degenerated to a tropical storm as it lost its warm ocean power source.
That Category 1-equivalent extratropical storm kick was Dorian.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 14620
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: Cat 6?

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:38 pm

All I know is that I had to replace all my Cat 5 wiring with Cat 6 a few years ago in order to get reliable gigabit networking around my property.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16451
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: Cat 6?

Post by neufer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:07 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Chris Peterson wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:38 pm

All I know is that I had to replace all my Cat 5 wiring with Cat 6 a few years ago in order to get reliable gigabit networking around my property.
Nowadays, global warming (plus a good black Sharpie)
could extend a Cat 6 all the way to Colorado.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2598
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Dartmouth, NS, Canada

Re: Cat 6?

Post by rstevenson » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:53 am

neufer wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:35 pm
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
rstevenson wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:36 pm
neufer wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:00 pm

You live in Alabama :?:
Nova Scotia. I posted that at 9:38 Saturday morning, and yes, that was a few hours before it hit here. And yes, it was a category 1 -- a strong 1, almost a 2 -- when it reached shore, though it quickly degenerated to a tropical storm as it lost its warm ocean power source.
That Category 1-equivalent extratropical storm kick was Dorian.
Sucked in by the Inscrutable Art again. Not being up on the daily lunacies of your current Actor in Chief, I failed to grasp the connection between Alabama and Dorian. Now I get it, thanks to Google.

Rob

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16451
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: Cat 6?

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:20 pm

rstevenson wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:53 am

Sucked in by the Inscrutable Art again.

Not being up on the daily lunacies of your current Actor in Chief,
I failed to grasp the connection between Alabama and Dorian.
Insult my country's president! You've cut me to the quick :!:

(Where's Rob Ford when you need him :?: )
rstevenson wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:53 am

Now I get it, thanks to Google.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Inscrutable wrote:
inscrutable (adj.) "that cannot be discovered by searching, mysterious," c. 1500,

from Late Latin inscrutabilis,

from in- "not, opposite of" + *scrutabilis, from scrutari "examine, ransack" (see scrutiny).
Art Neuendorffer