rocket launch postponed

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neufer
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rocket launch postponed

Postby neufer » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:46 pm

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/201 ... 894587001/ wrote:
'Mad' Mike Hughes cancels rocket launch to prove Earth is flat when BLM seeks permits
Sherry Barkas, The Desert Sun Published 2:47 p.m. PT Nov. 26, 2017

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
<<A man who believes the Earth is flat and was ready to launch himself from a rocket in Amboy Saturday afternoon to prove it has canceled his plans. At least for now. Not having the required federal permits plus mechanical problems with his "motorhome/rocket launcher" have forced self-taught rocket scientist "Mad" Mike Hughes to put his experiment on hold.

The United States Bureau of Land Management "told me they would not allow me to do the event ... at least not at that location," Hughes said in a YouTube announcement, amid international attention over his plans to launch into the 'atmosflat.'

"It's been very disappointing," he said.

Hughes is a 61-year-old limo driver who has spent the last few years building a steam-powered rocket out of salvage parts in his garage. His project has cost him $20,000, which includes Rust-Oleum paint to fancy it up and a motor home he bought on Craigslist that he converted into a ramp. Hughes was set to launch his rocket between 2 and 3 p.m. Saturday.

Plans had been in the works for more than a year and Hughes said he was initially told by the BLM "that it was up to the FAA" to approve the launch. The FAA, Hughes said, told him "We can't honestly approve it, we just know that you are going to do it there."

News of his plans began to spread Monday and gained worldwide attention, which Hughes believes is why the BLM began to push for permits. "My feeling is that one of the top executives at the Bureau of Land Management called Needles, California, saying ... 'What's going on? Who permitted this?'" Hughes said. Plus, as he and his team were preparing to leave Wednesday, the motorhome/rocket launcher broke down in his driveway, he said.

"We want everyone to please stay tuned," Hughes said. His plan is to try again next week.>>
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby BDanielMayfield » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:52 pm

And this stupidity is astronomy related how, exactly?

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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby neufer » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:21 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
And this stupidity is astronomy related how, exactly?

    The Earth is part of the Universe.

    An experiment to prove the Universe is flat is Astronomy related.

    An experiment to prove the Earth is flat must also be Astronomy related.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby BDanielMayfield » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:50 pm

neufer wrote:An experiment to prove the Earth is flat must also be Astronomy related.

As the fact of the Earth's roundness has already been established very, very far beyond all reasonable doubt, I doubt your conclusion.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Chris Peterson » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:55 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
neufer wrote:An experiment to prove the Earth is flat must also be Astronomy related.

As the fact of the Earth's roundness has already been established very, very far beyond all reasonable doubt, I doubt your conclusion.

The fact that there's a growing flat earth movement, combined with all the other anti-science we see, is something we should all be aware of.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby neufer » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:05 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
neufer wrote:
An experiment to prove the Earth is flat must also be Astronomy related.

As the fact of the Earth's roundness has already been established very, very far beyond all reasonable doubt, I doubt your conclusion.

Should Mike Hughes fail to reach orbit that would provide evidence that the Earth is flat.

Chris Peterson wrote:
The fact that there's a growing flat earth movement ... is something we should all be aware of.

What is your evidence for this?
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Chris Peterson » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:15 pm

neufer wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:
neufer wrote:
An experiment to prove the Earth is flat must also be Astronomy related.

As the fact of the Earth's roundness has already been established very, very far beyond all reasonable doubt, I doubt your conclusion.

Should Mike Hughes fail to reach orbit that would provide evidence that the Earth is flat.

Chris Peterson wrote:
The fact that there's a growing flat earth movement ... is something we should all be aware of.

What is your evidence for this?

Reading the news. The group is centered here in Colorado, and numerous stories over the last year have pointed to their growth.

Of course, it's very unlikely that people with such views will ever amount to significant numbers, but their new existence is symptomatic of the much wider increase in people generally mistrustful of science and willing to abandon solidly established science in favor of crackpot ideas or to match their political ideology. I don't doubt the connection between flat-earthers and those who deny AGW, who are anti-vaxxers, who are young Earth creationists, etc.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Fred the Cat » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:17 pm

Mike Hughes could be a muon :?: More likely a moron :ssmile:
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Chris Peterson » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:23 pm

Fred the Cat wrote:Mike Hughes could be a muon :?: More likely a moron :ssmile:

Also a chicken, since the BLM already said they never received a request for a permit and have never issued any denial of permission.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby bystander » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:38 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:... The group is centered here in Colorado ...

It must be Eastern Colorado. There's nothing flat in Western Colorado.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby geckzilla » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:18 pm

I think the flat earthers just fill the niche that moon landing hoaxers used to fill. The moon landing folks were all the rage when Apollo was going on, but it's been long enough it's not fashionable any longer. Flat earthers can stick it to NASA in all their current research instead of just rambling on about the old days of Apollo. It's a very progressive movement.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby neufer » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:51 pm

geckzilla wrote:
I think the flat earthers just fill the niche that moon landing hoaxers used to fill. The moon landing folks were all the rage when Apollo was going on, but it's been long enough it's not fashionable any longer. Flat earthers can stick it to NASA in all their current research instead of just rambling on about the old days of Apollo. It's a very progressive movement.

Of course the moon landings had little more to do with real astronomy than
Mike Hughes's endeavor does...but they both sure generate a lot of media attention.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby BDanielMayfield » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:03 am

neufer wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
I think the flat earthers just fill the niche that moon landing hoaxers used to fill. The moon landing folks were all the rage when Apollo was going on, but it's been long enough it's not fashionable any longer. Flat earthers can stick it to NASA in all their current research instead of just rambling on about the old days of Apollo. It's a very progressive movement.

Of course the moon landings had little more to do with real astronomy than
Mike Hughes's endeavor does...but they both sure generate a lot of media attention.

And that's the goal. Period. Do these flat earthers really believe the Earth is flat? I doubt it. They're attention seekers.

It would make as much sense (none) to believe that electricity isn't real, but they need that to get their ridiculous message across.

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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby geckzilla » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:38 am

BDanielMayfield wrote:And that's the goal. Period. Do these flat earthers really believe the Earth is flat? I doubt it. They're attention seekers.

There are trolls, liars, and people who genuinely believe that everything NASA does is one big conspiracy, from flat earth to covering up aliens. It is their nature to act and think in this way. I don't think many of them are doing it for merely attention any more so than you or I are attention-seeking by posting at a forum like this, or making comments on news articles, or begging for funding, or any other myriad of human activities all vying for social attention.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Chris Peterson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:59 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:And that's the goal. Period. Do these flat earthers really believe the Earth is flat? I doubt it. They're attention seekers.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's true. I have people approach me who believe the Earth is flat, or that we live inside some sort of hollow earth. They're excited that new "science" demonstrates this. Stuff they pick up on crank websites, and lack the skills to detect as nonsense. These people are not attention seekers, they are simply extremely credulous and prone to conspiracy theories and a general mistrust of any sort of mainstream science. (We run into slightly more sophisticated versions on science sites- those who believe that well accepted theories are wrong- Big Bang cosmology, general relativity, etc.)

There are attention seekers, of course, like the guy with the rocket. The people who organize flat Earth clubs. They're exploiting the gullible. But the majority are the gullible, not the attention seekers.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Pointless » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:And that's the goal. Period. Do these flat earthers really believe the Earth is flat? I doubt it. They're attention seekers.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's true. I have people approach me who believe the Earth is flat, or that we live inside some sort of hollow earth. They're excited that new "science" demonstrates this. Stuff they pick up on crank websites, and lack the skills to detect as nonsense. These people are not attention seekers, they are simply extremely credulous and prone to conspiracy theories and a general mistrust of any sort of mainstream science. (We run into slightly more sophisticated versions on science sites- those who believe that well accepted theories are wrong- Big Bang cosmology, general relativity, etc.)

There are attention seekers, of course, like the guy with the rocket. The people who organize flat Earth clubs. They're exploiting the gullible. But the majority are the gullible, not the attention seekers.


Yup .. some people genuinely don't believe that planet earth is as it is pictured to be from outer space. They genuinely believe the earth is flat. I've met one in person .. and he has, what are to him, logical reasons for his belief. Not a big deal. We're all learning.

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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby BDanielMayfield » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:55 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:And that's the goal. Period. Do these flat earthers really believe the Earth is flat? I doubt it. They're attention seekers.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's true. I have people approach me who believe the Earth is flat, or that we live inside some sort of hollow earth. They're excited that new "science" demonstrates this. Stuff they pick up on crank websites, and lack the skills to detect as nonsense. These people are not attention seekers, they are simply extremely credulous and prone to conspiracy theories and a general mistrust of any sort of mainstream science. (We run into slightly more sophisticated versions on science sites- those who believe that well accepted theories are wrong- Big Bang cosmology, general relativity, etc.)

There are attention seekers, of course, like the guy with the rocket. The people who organize flat Earth clubs. They're exploiting the gullible. But the majority are the gullible, not the attention seekers.


That is very unfortunate that people can be that gullible and credulous. After considering your and geck's replies to my off the cuff remark I can see that I made too broad of a generalization. Some are lying hucksters, and some are just plain uneducated and well, moronic.

Last week I met a teenager who boldly asserted that "dinosaurs are fake". I pointed out places where dinosaur fossils are found, but she remained unconvinced. I did catch her attention though by saying, "Well, you can continue to believe that, but people will think you are foolish."
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Pointless » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:14 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:And that's the goal. Period. Do these flat earthers really believe the Earth is flat? I doubt it. They're attention seekers.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's true. I have people approach me who believe the Earth is flat, or that we live inside some sort of hollow earth. They're excited that new "science" demonstrates this. Stuff they pick up on crank websites, and lack the skills to detect as nonsense. These people are not attention seekers, they are simply extremely credulous and prone to conspiracy theories and a general mistrust of any sort of mainstream science. (We run into slightly more sophisticated versions on science sites- those who believe that well accepted theories are wrong- Big Bang cosmology, general relativity, etc.)

There are attention seekers, of course, like the guy with the rocket. The people who organize flat Earth clubs. They're exploiting the gullible. But the majority are the gullible, not the attention seekers.


That is very unfortunate that people can be that gullible and credulous. After considering your and geck's replies to my off the cuff remark I can see that I made too broad of a generalization. Some are lying hucksters, and some are just plain uneducated and well, moronic.

Last week I met a teenager who boldly asserted that "dinosaurs are fake". I pointed out places where dinosaur fossils are found, but she remained unconvinced. I did catch her attention though by saying, "Well, you can continue to believe that, but people will think you are foolish."


Moronic is such a harsh word I absolutely never use it except to describe internet zombies who go about creating hatred for Muslims, 'Blacks,' etc.

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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby geckzilla » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:20 pm

I made my comment because just the other night I had observed someone calling someone else "attention-seeker" and I thought to myself that simply describes a human being. Almost everyone needs some attention now and then because we're social creatures. But for some reason when we disagree with what the other person is doing, that need for attention is used disparagingly. The more I thought about it, the more I decided it wasn't a very good way to criticize someone.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby neufer » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:46 pm

geckzilla wrote:
I made my comment because just the other night I had observed someone calling someone else "attention-seeker" and I thought to myself that simply describes a human being. Almost everyone needs some attention now and then because we're social creatures. But for some reason when we disagree with what the other person is doing, that need for attention is used disparagingly. The more I thought about it, the more I decided it wasn't a very good way to criticize someone.

'Mad' Mike Hughes's seek for attention is unlikely to harm anyone (other than himself perhaps).

Pointing out Mike's shear delight in the attention he was getting wasn't meant to be a criticism by me.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby geckzilla » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:10 pm

Art, I honestly didn't even notice you say that. I mean, you clearly didn't use it in a denigrating way.
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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby rstevenson » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:49 am

geckzilla wrote:I think the flat earthers just fill the niche that moon landing hoaxers used to fill. The moon landing folks were all the rage when Apollo was going on, but it's been long enough it's not fashionable any longer. Flat earthers can stick it to NASA in all their current research instead of just rambling on about the old days of Apollo. It's a very progressive movement.

I suppose that may be a good description of the current fed-off-the-internet flat earthers, but I can assure you the movement is not anything new. I recall arguing briefly and futiley with one of them back around 1970. He also collected hats -- hundreds of them -- and believed (or so he said) that he could survive on ice cream alone. He wouldn't speak to me after that conversation, having got the correct impression that I thought he was a complete dingbat.

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Re: rocket launch postponed

Postby Ann » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:24 am

rstevenson wrote:
geckzilla wrote:I think the flat earthers just fill the niche that moon landing hoaxers used to fill. The moon landing folks were all the rage when Apollo was going on, but it's been long enough it's not fashionable any longer. Flat earthers can stick it to NASA in all their current research instead of just rambling on about the old days of Apollo. It's a very progressive movement.

I suppose that may be a good description of the current fed-off-the-internet flat earthers, but I can assure you the movement is not anything new. I recall arguing briefly and futiley with one of them back around 1970. He also collected hats -- hundreds of them -- and believed (or so he said) that he could survive on ice cream alone. He wouldn't speak to me after that conversation, having got the correct impression that I thought he was a complete dingbat.

Rob


I guess flat earthers are like creationists. How do you argue with them? You don't.

But I have to admit that flat earthers seem worse than creationists. After all, we can't all travel back in time and watch the birth of the Universe, the Sun, the Earth and life on Earth. There is always the remote possibility that even though scientists have explained so carefully how it all happened, a bearded old man may nevertheless have magicked it it all out of nothing by uttering the portentous words, "Let there be". Fat chance, of course. But you never know.

Flat earthers, unlike creationists, have no such excuse. If we only accept the fact that we are too small to see the shape of the Earth from our vantage point here on Earth, there is simply a ton of evidence that the Earth is round here and now. Have the flat earthers never heard of Newton, whose Principia explains why all massive bodies are deformed into spheres? And the gravity of massive spheres explains why we can walk on those with solid surfaces, because their gravity prevents us falling off. I guess the flat earthers haven't heard of this, or couldn't make themselves listen.

The only way anyone can honestly believe that the Earth is flat is if this person is convinced that everything that all the arrogant people up there tell you is a conspiracy intended to pull the wool over your eyes.

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