Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

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Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by acap » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:00 pm

The movement of light in space-time/space is a singularity because it is constant in all conditions. Light is electromagnetic waves and its speed is special. Blackholes are also singularities. Singularities do occur in real that is for certain.

Sound is the actual movement/vibration/oscillation of mass particles/medium and propagates through the medium. Its speed is dependent on the density of the medium through which it travels. How to consider sound waves in space-time needs to be investigated and understood properly. Space-time may not contain any mass but behave like an elastic material and exhibit rigid behaviour.


Hence sound waves in space-time will not propogate because the energy required for space-time to oscillate will be too high. Events like big-bang can hovever create sound waves in space-time because the big-bang is itself a singularity. There are also other huge engergy explosions whcih may generate faint sound. The speed of sound will be same as the speed of light because of the highly rigid (almost infinite) behaviour of space-time.
Last edited by acap on Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propogation of sound.

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:23 pm

acap wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:00 pm
The movement of light in space-time/space is a singularity because it is constant in all conditions. Light is electromagnetic waves and its speed is special. Blackholes are also singularities. Singularities do occur in real that is for certain.

Sound is the actual movement/vibration/oscillation of mass particles/medium and propagates through the medium. Its speed is dependent on the density of the medium through which it travels. How to consider sound waves in space-time needs to be investigated and understood properly. Space-time may not contain any mass but behave like an elastic material and exhibit rigid behaviour.


Hence sound waves in space-time will not propogate because the energy required for space-time to oscillate will be too high. Events like big-bang can hovever create sound waves in space-time because the big-bang is itself a singularity. There are also other huge engergy explosions whcih may generate faint sound. The speed of sound will be same as the speed of light because of the highly rigid (almost infinite) behaviour of space-time.
I'd say that gravitational waves might reasonably be seen as sound waves carried by the medium of spacetime.
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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by acap » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:01 pm

I have stated the propagation of sound waves which we can listen. Our ear drums are sensitive to sound waves. Gravitational waves are very fundamental in nature through which the force of gravity propagates. It is also a wave and waves have a common property that they oscillate.

Sound waves by definition, requires some mass/particle to oscillate and hit our ears and make us feel it.

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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by acap » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:23 pm

It is said in Hindus (I am also a Hindu) that the Universe started with a faint sound of "OM". Did God say this to initiate the big-bang??

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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:53 pm

acap wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:01 pm
I have stated the propagation of sound waves which we can listen. Our ear drums are sensitive to sound waves. Gravitational waves are very fundamental in nature through which the force of gravity propagates. It is also a wave and waves have a common property that they oscillate.

Sound waves by definition, requires some mass/particle to oscillate and hit our ears and make us feel it.
Gravitational waves move our eardrums just like pressure waves carried through the air. And some are in the same frequency wave we are sensitive to. The only reason we don't hear them is that they are far below our threshold of sensitivity. (Although it might also be a problem that they almost instantly move structures in the inner ear, as well.)
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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by acap » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:56 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:53 pm
acap wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:01 pm
I have stated the propagation of sound waves which we can listen. Our ear drums are sensitive to sound waves. Gravitational waves are very fundamental in nature through which the force of gravity propagates. It is also a wave and waves have a common property that they oscillate.

Sound waves by definition, requires some mass/particle to oscillate and hit our ears and make us feel it.
Gravitational waves move our eardrums just like pressure waves carried through the air. And some are in the same frequency wave we are sensitive to. The only reason we don't hear them is that they are far below our threshold of sensitivity. (Although it might also be a problem that they almost instantly move structures in the inner ear, as well.)
Thanks for the input.

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Light as a Singularity but not refered so - Why?

Post by acap » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:54 am

The speed of light is constant in all conditions. Its speed is the upper limit any object can reach. Further, light is a hybrid product consisting of both electrical and magnetic waves. Light exhibit dual nature both waves and particle. Light is special and I want to refer it to as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?

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Re: Light as a Singularity but not refered so - Why?

Post by Markus Schwarz » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:43 pm

acap wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:54 am
... I want to refer to [light] as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?
For the simple reason that it can be described by the laws of science :D There are Maxwell's equations to describe the 'classical' wave nature, and quantum electro dynamics for the 'quantum' particle nature.

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Re: Light as a Singularity but not refered so - Why?

Post by acap » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Markus Schwarz wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:43 pm
acap wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:54 am
... I want to refer to [light] as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?
For the simple reason that it can be described by the laws of science :D There are Maxwell's equations to describe the 'classical' wave nature, and quantum electro dynamics for the 'quantum' particle nature.
But the speed of light remains unexplained constant at all conditions. There is a theory for the same with equations but in normal environment it contradicts everything. There are theories that will explain this behaviour at high speeds but at normal circumstances it is different. Singularities like the big-bang, black holes are special as normal physics do not explain it. Similar is the case of light speed.

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Re: Light as a Singularity but not refered so - Why?

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:31 pm

acap wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Markus Schwarz wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:43 pm
acap wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:54 am
... I want to refer to [light] as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?
For the simple reason that it can be described by the laws of science :D There are Maxwell's equations to describe the 'classical' wave nature, and quantum electro dynamics for the 'quantum' particle nature.
But the speed of light remains unexplained constant at all conditions. There is a theory for the same with equations but in normal environment it contradicts everything. There are theories that will explain this behaviour at high speeds but at normal circumstances it is different. Singularities like the big-bang, black holes are special as normal physics do not explain it. Similar is the case of light speed.
All constants are "unexplained". And what is a "normal environment"? That's just a bias based on the way our senses and our brains work. Light and quantum phenomena are as much a part of the environment as billiard balls on a table. There are no contradictions.
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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by bystander » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:04 pm

What is a singularity?

A singularity means a point where some property is infinite. For example, at the center of a black hole, according to classical theory, the density is infinite (because a finite mass is compressed to a zero volume). Hence it is a singularity. Similarly, if you extrapolate the properties of the universe to the instant of the Big Bang, you will find that both the density and the temperature go to infinity, and so that also is a singularity. It must be stated that these come due to the breaking down of the classical theory.
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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by acap » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:23 pm

Take the case of an Avogadro Number. It is constant for all elements. This is explained logically by the fact that as the atomic number increases the mass of the element also increases.

All speeds add-up or substract under normal circumstances. Weather it is the speed of solids or liquids or gases. Angular velocities also do the same.

The value of pie is also constant and it can be logically explained because as the diameter of the circle increases the circumference is bound to increase. Hence their ratio (=pie) is constant.

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Re: Light as a Singularity but not refered so - Why?

Post by neufer » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:11 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:31 pm

Light and quantum phenomena are as much a part of the environment as billiard balls on a table.
  • The first two things a baby learns (from playing "peek-a-boo") about objects that
    cannot be perceived (seen, heard, touched, smelled or sensed in any way) are:
    • 1) object permanence and

      2) the fact that the evolution of a quantum system always involves
      a surjective bounded operator on a Hilbert space preserving the inner product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence wrote:
<<Object permanence is the understanding that objects continue to exist even when they cannot be perceived (seen, heard, touched, smelled or sensed in any way).>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_operator wrote:
<<In functional analysis, a unitary operator is a surjective bounded operator on a Hilbert space preserving the inner product. Unitary operators are usually taken as operating on a Hilbert space, but the same notion serves to define the concept of isomorphism between Hilbert spaces. In quantum physics, unitarity is a restriction on the allowed evolution of quantum systems that ensures the sum of probabilities of all possible outcomes of any event always equals 1. Similarly, the S-matrix that describes how the physical system changes in a scattering process must be a unitary operator as well; this implies the optical theorem.>>
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:36 pm

acap wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:23 pm
Take the case of an Avogadro Number. It is constant for all elements. This is explained logically by the fact that as the atomic number increases the mass of the element also increases.

All speeds add-up or substract under normal circumstances. Weather it is the speed of solids or liquids or gases. Angular velocities also do the same.

The value of pie is also constant and it can be logically explained because as the diameter of the circle increases the circumference is bound to increase. Hence their ratio (=pie) is constant.
Avogadro's constant isn't really a fundamental constant, but a derived value based on the mass of carbon. Pi isn't obviously a fundamental constant, either, but a property based on a specific set of mathematical axioms.

It is probably a mistake to view the constant c as the speed of light. In fact, it is a fundamental constant that shows up all over the place. It is better to think of the speed of light as being defined by c.
Chris

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