APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

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APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby APOD Robot » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:06 am

Image Too Close to a Black Hole

Explanation: What would you see if you went right up to a black hole? Above is a computer generated image highlighting how strange things would look. The black hole has such strong gravity that light is noticeably bent towards it - causing some very unusual visual distortions. Every star in the normal frame has at least two bright images - one on each side of the black hole. Near the black hole, you can see the whole sky - light from every direction is bent around and comes back to you. The original background map was taken from the 2MASS infrared sky survey, with stars from the Henry Draper catalog superposed. Black holes are thought to be the densest state of matter, and there is indirect evidence for their presence in stellar binary systems and the centers of globular clusters, galaxies, and quasars.

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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby owlice » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:20 am

I think this is very cool!!
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby mexhunter » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:34 am

Click to play embedded YouTube video.


Click to play embedded YouTube video.


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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby lenka » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:04 am

Video is always helpful:) In the 2nd video you can also see Mauna Kea volcano which was in the picture 2 days ago.
Thanks!
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Céline Richard » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:39 am

This APOD is great :)
Thank you :D for the video César! It is more interactive, and i felt afraid while looking at the stars disapearing into it.
Have a very good day,

Céline
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby SmartAZ » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:51 pm

"We have never seen them directly, yet we know they are there."


Science is in a very sad state, as demonstrated by the quotation above. (First line of the movie.)

The black hole is entirely an invention, made up to support other invented theories. The black hole had to be invented because the big bang required it. The big bang was invented because the expanding universe required it. The expanding universe was invented because the red shift assumption required it. Red shift was actually observed, but it is an assumption that it is caused by the Doppler effect. There are other phenomena that cause red shift.

The sad state to which I refer is that so many people assume that all of the above concepts are true just because they have heard them so many times, and they become very comfortable with a collection of mistaken beliefs because so few people ever point out that it is all based on an assumption. If the assumption is wrong, all those theories are wrong.

We have the example of Aristotle, who was such a persuasive teacher of his assumptions that science was completely derailed for almost two thousand years. It was not until Galileo was willing to risk his life that Aristotle's assumptions were replaced by actual observations. Does the world have to go through that again?
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby rstevenson » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:05 pm

SmartAZ wrote:... The sad state to which I refer is that so many people assume that all of the above concepts are true just because they have heard them so many times, and they become very comfortable with a collection of mistaken beliefs because so few people ever point out that it is all based on an assumption. If the assumption is wrong, all those theories are wrong. ...

And only a few particularly astute people (including you, of course) are able to see through this house of cards to the actual, revealed, (yet somehow unproven) truth?

Rob
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby neufer » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:52 pm


Oh, my god! What is that thing INSIDE of the black hole :?:

Nevermind, .... it was just a smudge on my computer screen. :oops:
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby orin stepanek » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:22 pm

You know mexhunter; your first black hole (youtube) would make a great waste basket! :mrgreen:
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby quinebaugw » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:52 pm

All right, he was concerned with rabbit holes, but his description of what happens when you fall down one was enlightening. And the mirror universe that follows ...
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Chris Peterson » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:17 pm

SmartAZ wrote:The expanding universe was invented because the red shift assumption required it. Red shift was actually observed, but it is an assumption that it is caused by the Doppler effect.

That is not an assumption of mainstream cosmology. The redshift we observe, and which is explained by an expanding Universe, has nothing at all to do with the Doppler effect.
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby neufer » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:38 pm

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078869/quotes wrote:
Memorable quotes for The Black Hole (1979)
Image
V.I.N.CENT ("Vital Information Necessary CENTralized"
---------------------------------------------------
[V.I.N.CENT's tether breaks while repairing the ship]
Kate McCrae: Dan, the tether's broken!

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: I'm going after him!

Dan Holland: Stay at your post, Charlie.

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: What the hell are you made of? What if it was one of us out there?

Dan Holland: V.I.N.CENT is one of us.
---------------------------------------------------
Lieutenant Charles Pizer: We'd be better off without you and Maximilian trying to knock heads.

V.I.N.CENT: I can handle that thing.

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: Well, far be it from you to admit there isn't anything you can't handle.

V.I.N.CENT: There are three basic types, Mr. Pizer: the Wills, the Won'ts, and the Can'ts. The Wills accomplish everything, the Won'ts oppose everything, and the Can'ts won't try anything.

Dan Holland: Well, do us all a favor, V.I.N.CENT, and try to be a Can't, especially where that monster is concerned. We need you, not another corkscrew.
---------------------------------------------------
Lieutenant Charles Pizer: Vincent, were you programmed to bug me?

V.I.N.CENT: No, sir, to educate you.
---------------------------------------------------
Lieutenant Charles Pizer: When I volunteered for this mission, I never thought I'd end up playing straight man to a tin can.
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Hans Reinhardt: Something caused all this. But what caused... that cause?
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Hans Reinhardt: The word "impossible," Mr. Booth, is only found in the dictionary of fools.
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Hans Reinhardt: In, through... and beyond.
---------------------------------------------------
Kate McCrae: If there's any justice at all, the black hole will be your grave!
---------------------------------------------------
Kate McCrae: Alex, I will not have you throw your life away for this!

Durant: He can do it, Kate. I know he can.

Kate McCrae: Oh, God, Alex!

Durant: There's an entirely different universe beyond that black hole. A point where time and space as we know it no longer exists. We will be the first to see it, to explore it, to experience it!
[Inside the "Palomino"]

Booth: Damn it all, Dan! If we wait for Alex, we may be too late! Don't you see? He's hypnotized by that man!

Holland: V.I.N.CENT!

V.I.N.CENT: Yes, Captain?

Holland: Tell Kate I want her back here fast, with or without Alex. Tell her why.
---------------------------------------------------
Harry Booth: No sense leaving the story of a lifetime untold, Captain.

Dan Holland: I'm afraid there is, Harry.
[pointing to the black hole]

Dan Holland: And it's staring straight at us right now.
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Hans Reinhardt: Increase power to maximum. We are going THROUGH!
---------------------------------------------------
Dan Holland: The controls aren't responding.

V.I.N.CENT: Captain, the ship has been programmed!

Dan Holland: [Resigned] To Reinhardt's course!

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: [Shocked] You mean we're going into the black hole?

Dan Holland: Yup.

Kate McCrae: Let's pray he was a genius!
---------------------------------------------------
V.I.N.CENT: If one dances, one must pay the piper.

[S.T.A.R collapses onto the floor]

V.I.N.CENT: If there's one thing I *cannot* stand, it's a sore loser!
---------------------------------------------------
[V.I.N.C.E.N.T enters the Parts Storage warehouse on the Cygnus. Old B.O.B. floats in one of the corners and comes out upon V.I.N.C.E.N.T's entry]

B.O.B.: My name's B.O.B., Bio-Sanitation Batallion. I couldn't talk freely before, but I have a whole lot to tell ya. If Maximilian knew you were here, it would be the end for the both of us.

V.I.N.CENT: Can you permanently re-arm my lasers?
B.O.B.: Yeah, I can. V.I.N.C.E.N.T, you and your friends are in grave danger. Reinhardt only turned the lights on to prevent any damage to the Cygnus. This is a death ship.
---------------------------------------------------
[Old Bob reveals that the humanoid robots on board are actually survivors from the original crew]

Dan Holland: That explains the funeral!

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: Right!

Dan Holland: [Pointing to Harry] And the limping robot you spotted!
---------------------------------------------------
V.I.N.CENT: We have to go!

B.O.B.: Nope, I can't make it! My main circuits are gone, my anti-grav-systems blown, and backup systems are failing.

V.I.N.CENT: You *can* make it!

B.O.B.: It's no use, V.I.N.C.E.N.T.! My useful days are finished! But part of me goes with ya! It won't ever be defeated!
[starts to shut down]

B.O.B.: Carry on the tradition! We're the best!
[shuts down and falls back]

V.I.N.CENT: [V.I.N.C.E.N.T.'s eyes slowly look down at his comrade in arms, then turns towards the probe ship, turning his head backwards to look at B.O.B. once more as he leaves]
---------------------------------------------------
Dan Holland: Kate, try to get through to V.I.N.C.E.N.T with your E.S.P.

Kate McCrae: [gets a distant look in her eyes as she communicates telepathically. The camera pans to V.I.N.C.E.N.T outside the ship, his head turns and his eye balls glow, communicating back] I got through to V.I.N.C.E.N.T! He said there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very few old, bold pilots!

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: She's tuned into V.I.N.C.E.N.T all right!

Dan Holland: Good.
---------------------------------------------------
[the Palamino crew are climbing the pylon structure to board the probe ship. Charlie loses his grip and begins to drift out into space, towards the black hole]

Dan Holland: Charlie!

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: Heeelllllllppppp!

Kate McCrae: No!

Lieutenant Charles Pizer: Heeeeeeelllllllllpppppp!
[Charlie begins to flip over as he is drawn towards the black hole's event horizon]

V.I.N.CENT: [V.I.N.C.E.N.T. emerges from the passage, sees Charlie floating away, and floats out into space to retrieve him. Charlie grabs V.I.N.C.E.N.T., and the two float back and board the probe ship]
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Hans Reinhardt: [dying words] More light...
---------------------------------------------------
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby emc » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:09 pm

Awesome! What a deep and cavernous APOD! 8-)
So much data! I could use that BWE today!
Scotty, I need more time!
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Anthony Barreiro » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:12 pm

I could better understand how a black hole affects what is seen if this were presented as a before-and-after picture. Show me the original background without the black hole, and then show me how the view changes when the black hole is added.

P.S. This is the first time I've visited an apod discussion forum. You all certainly enjoy chatting.
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Céline Richard » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:30 pm

Hello Antony,

Welcome :D
Actually, i think the original background wouldn't have the concentration of stars around the current black hole because... a black hole is attracting everything, including light which can't go outside.

So if you take away the black hole, you would have a part of the sky, with an isotropic concentration of stars; i guess i am not clear :(
I mean you would have the same number of stars, per centimeter, more or less, in every direction, if i don't make a mistake.

Have a very nice day!

Céline :)
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby mjh937 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:58 pm

Perhaps someone could help me figure this out. Why would some light not bend around in front of the black hole, therefor making the stars appear to be in front of the black hole and obscuring it from view? I cannot understand why we would be able to see the disk (unless it is artistic license). Maybe I am over thinking this one, but any help comprehending it would be appreciated.
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Chris Peterson » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:06 pm

mjh937 wrote:Perhaps someone could help me figure this out. Why would some light not bend around in front of the black hole, therefor making the stars appear to be in front of the black hole and obscuring it from view? I cannot understand why we would be able to see the disk (unless it is artistic license). Maybe I am over thinking this one, but any help comprehending it would be appreciated.

You can only see light if the rays are coming towards you. There is light bending around the front, but when it leaves the black hole, it's going to be pointing towards something other than your eye.
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Céline Richard » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:48 pm

Hello :) ,

Actually, i put this picture, but without being sure it is what should be...

mjh937 wrote:Perhaps someone could help me figure this out. Why would some light not bend around in front of the black hole, therefor making the stars appear to be in front of the black hole and obscuring it from view? I cannot understand why we would be able to see the disk (unless it is artistic license).


Moreover, as you can see, it is a bad picture, i mean i used PAINT to change the APOD. The Universe is not supposed to be made of little squares of different intensities, like a painting of cubism :shock: Or like a jigsaw puzzle :shock:

I attach a jigsaw puzzle, from: http://www.123rf.com/photo_3399032_hand ... e-sky.html

Have a nice day!

Céline :)
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Guest » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:27 pm

quinebaugw wrote:All right, he was concerned with rabbit holes, but his description of what happens when you fall down one was enlightening. And the mirror universe that follows ...

Does nobody else remember Lewis Carroll?
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Don Lund » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:47 pm

It's unclear to me how light from stars can be bent around the BH and still remain in sharp focus, such that the stars remain points of light. I would think that rays from a ster would be smeared, like light from a distant galaxy as seen via a gravitational lens. Can anyone clear this up? Thanks...

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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby neufer » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:41 pm

Don Lund wrote:
It's unclear to me how light from stars can be bent around the BH and still remain in sharp focus, such that the stars remain points of light. I would think that rays from a star would be smeared, like light from a distant galaxy as seen via a gravitational lens. Can anyone clear this up? Thanks...

Stars are point sources of light.

If you smear out a point source of light it is still a point source of light.
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Chris Peterson » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:59 pm

Don Lund wrote:It's unclear to me how light from stars can be bent around the BH and still remain in sharp focus, such that the stars remain points of light. I would think that rays from a ster would be smeared, like light from a distant galaxy as seen via a gravitational lens. Can anyone clear this up? Thanks...

Extended sources are what get distorted. Stars are point sources, so their light follows a single path, and no distortion occurs. But where you have multiple images of star patterns, the patterns themselves (which are extended, of course) are likely to be distorted.
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby skippy » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:49 am

Dull---very dull

CGI??

Cmon-dont we have Hubble? ground Based telescopes?
Why do we need to look at pretty CGI pictures?

I dont get it
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby DavidLeodis » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:53 pm

The "original background map" link in the explanation brings up the APOD of July 19 2002 that is titled 'Counting Stars in the Infrared Sky'. I am unsure why that APOD was used. Clicking on "Alain Riazuelo" in the APOD of December 7 2010 brings up images, of which that stated by Alain "This is to be compared with the picture without black hole" seems to me to be much more relevant. I have tried to add that image to this post but I could not manage to do so. Sorry. :oops:

Click to view full size image 1 or image 2


Edit added at about 17:30 GMT. Thanks to bystander for adding the image, which is greatly appreciated. :) I thought I knew how to add an image but it did not work when I tried. :oops:
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Re: APOD: Too Close to a Black Hole (2010 Dec 07)

Postby Céline Richard » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:50 pm

But you attached an impressing picture here :)
DavidLeodis wrote:I have tried to add that image to this post but I could not manage to do so. Sorry. :oops:

You managed to do it; very beautiful and far better than what i have put!!

At the beginning it can be difficult. For instance, I know some people convert a few words in threads, but i don't know how they do this. So i just copy the full link in the forum, when i want to introduce one.

Have a very nice day!

Céline
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