APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

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APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:05 am

Image Clouds of Andromeda

Explanation: What are those red clouds surrounding the Andromeda galaxy? This galaxy, M31, is often imaged by planet Earth-based astronomers. As the nearest large spiral galaxy, it is a familiar sight with dark dust lanes, bright yellowish core, and spiral arms traced by clouds of bright blue stars. A mosaic of well-exposed broad and narrow-band image data, this colorful portrait of our neighboring island universe offers strikingly unfamiliar features though, faint reddish clouds of glowing ionized hydrogen gas in the same wide field of view. These ionized hydrogen clouds surely lie in the foreground of the scene, well within our Milky Way Galaxy. They are likely associated with the pervasive, dusty interstellar cirrus clouds scattered hundreds of light-years above our own galactic plane.

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Boomer12k » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:02 am

Interesting...

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:13 am

A very APOD worthy photo. I wondered though about it being called "The Clouds of Andromeda", when the red clouds that dominate the view aren't part of Andromeda at all. At least this important point is made clear in the Explanation.

Come to think of it though, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better title though, given the desire for titles to be short and attention grabbing...
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by heehaw » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:41 am

BDanielMayfield wrote:A very APOD worthy photo. I wondered though about it being called "The Clouds of Andromeda", when the red clouds that dominate the view aren't part of Andromeda at all. At least this important point is made clear in the Explanation.

Come to think of it though, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better title though, given the desire for titles to be short and attention grabbing...
Clouds OF Andromeda is not wrong, it is perfect! The wrong nomenclature is "the Andromeda galaxy:" it should be "the galaxy far beyond Andromeda."

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:44 pm

heehaw wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:A very APOD worthy photo. I wondered though about it being called "The Clouds of Andromeda", when the red clouds that dominate the view aren't part of Andromeda at all. At least this important point is made clear in the Explanation.

Come to think of it though, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better title though, given the desire for titles to be short and attention grabbing...
Clouds OF Andromeda is not wrong, it is perfect! The wrong nomenclature is "the Andromeda galaxy:" it should be "the galaxy far beyond Andromeda."
Ah, I see your point: An allusion to the constellation rather than the galaxy. (Except the constellation Andromeda wasn't even mentioned in the Explanation!) I wasn't exactly saying the title was wrong however, I was just wondering if it might be wrong. And then I made the point that I couldn't think of anything better, which in itself is a complement. I agree then with your first statement: It's a perfect title.

Bruce
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Ann » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:56 pm

heehaw wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:A very APOD worthy photo. I wondered though about it being called "The Clouds of Andromeda", when the red clouds that dominate the view aren't part of Andromeda at all. At least this important point is made clear in the Explanation.

Come to think of it though, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better title though, given the desire for titles to be short and attention grabbing...
Clouds OF Andromeda is not wrong, it is perfect! The wrong nomenclature is "the Andromeda galaxy:" it should be "the galaxy far beyond Andromeda."
Good points, both of you!

I have to wonder how common such thin ionized high-altitude cirrus clouds may be in and around spiral galaxies. Maybe they are quite common? Is it possible that Andromeda herself has such clouds, but we have yet to detect them? (I apologize for ascribing a female gender to the galaxy, but when I talk about M31 as "Andromeda", the name is suggestive. Apropos the nomenclature referring to the galaxy, of course!)

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by rstevenson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:00 pm

Errmmm... If I took a picture of the Big Dipper with some thin clouds scudding through the sky above me, would I title the picture The Clouds of The Big Dipper? I've never met-a-phor that stretched that far. :mrgreen:

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:08 pm

heehaw wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:A very APOD worthy photo. I wondered though about it being called "The Clouds of Andromeda", when the red clouds that dominate the view aren't part of Andromeda at all. At least this important point is made clear in the Explanation.

Come to think of it though, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better title though, given the desire for titles to be short and attention grabbing...
Clouds OF Andromeda is not wrong, it is perfect! The wrong nomenclature is "the Andromeda galaxy:" it should be "the galaxy far beyond Andromeda."
Indeed. In fact, "Andromeda Galaxy" is fairly recent usage. I look back in my old astronomy texts, and it was always called "The Great Galaxy in Andromeda".
Chris

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Case » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:09 pm

The Hα is much more emphasized, compared to last year’s image by Mr Andreo, which was then one of the best available at that angular size and next to a familiar object. What strides we have made!
APOD Robot wrote:These ionized hydrogen clouds surely lie in the foreground of the scene, well within our Milky Way Galaxy. They are likely associated with the pervasive, dusty interstellar cirrus clouds scattered hundreds of light-years above our own galactic plane.
Glowing ionized gas, instead of ‘regular’ reflecting dust (IFN), that is pretty special too, at the low densities I expect there.

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:10 pm

rstevenson wrote:Errmmm... If I took a picture of the Big Dipper with some thin clouds scudding through the sky above me, would I title the picture The Clouds of The Big Dipper? I've never met-a-phor that stretched that far.
If I took such a picture and was thinking of a title, I'd probably go with Clouds in the Big Dipper.
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by sillyworm2 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Beautiful!

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by RBANDREO » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:48 pm

So the main debate here is about the title? No one complained about the "Planets on the Wing" APOD the other day - I surely did not see any planets on that wing!! :ssmile:

Anyway, adding to the discussion, last year, when I produced my image of M31 with these red clouds, I named the image "Clouds of Andromeda", mostly because I've been following that nomenclature with a number of images I've released in the last few years: Clouds of Orion, Taurus, Perseus, Aries... so the name for the M31 image popped up intuitively, not much creative effort on my side. After all, like BDanielMayfield said above earlier, it's a very suitable name despite the clouds aren't really in or even around Andromeda. In any case, APOD titles tend to be on the creative side (I personally like that), with the good stuff later in the text.

Cheers,
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by neufer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Ann wrote:
I have to wonder how common such thin ionized high-altitude cirrus clouds may be in and around spiral galaxies. Maybe they are quite common? Is it possible that Andromeda herself has such clouds, but we have yet to detect them?
  • Isn't that exactly what that red spiral is "scattered hundreds of light-years" above Andromeda's arms :?:
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:20 pm

RBANDREO wrote:In any case, APOD titles tend to be on the creative side (I personally like that), with the good stuff later in the text.
I agree. But some people seem to dislike any sort of metaphor mixed in with science. Just look what happens anytime an APOD caption uses "Island Universe"!
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by MarkBour » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:23 pm

neufer wrote:
Ann wrote: I have to wonder how common such thin ionized high-altitude cirrus clouds may be in and around spiral galaxies. Maybe they are quite common? Is it possible that Andromeda herself has such clouds, but we have yet to detect them?
  • Isn't that exactly what that red spiral is "scattered hundreds of light-years" above Andromeda's arms :?:
Art, I'm quite curious as to what you're talking about, but cannot say that I see it in the image. (Or are you referring to another APOD, or link?)
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by neufer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:47 pm

MarkBour wrote:
neufer wrote:
Ann wrote:
I have to wonder how common such thin ionized high-altitude cirrus clouds may be in and around spiral galaxies. Maybe they are quite common? Is it possible that Andromeda herself has such clouds, but we have yet to detect them?
  • Isn't that exactly what that red spiral is "scattered hundreds of light-years" above Andromeda's arms :?:
Art, I'm quite curious as to what you're talking about, but cannot say that I see it in the image.
You don't see a red spiral :?:
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by stevewiggins » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:12 pm

M31 is one of my favorite naked eye sights. To get an idea of its 'apparent' distance I'll count off 20 lengths of our own galaxy, getting smaller and smaller with depth perception. Fortunately the 'cirrus' clouds don't get in the way.

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by rstevenson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:36 pm

RBANDREO wrote:So the main debate here is about the title? No one complained about the "Planets on the Wing" APOD the other day - I surely did not see any planets on that wing!! :ssmile:

Anyway, adding to the discussion, last year, when I produced my image of M31 with these red clouds, I named the image "Clouds of Andromeda", mostly because I've been following that nomenclature with a number of images I've released in the last few years: Clouds of Orion, Taurus, Perseus, Aries... so the name for the M31 image popped up intuitively, not much creative effort on my side. After all, like BDanielMayfield said above earlier, it's a very suitable name despite the clouds aren't really in or even around Andromeda. In any case, APOD titles tend to be on the creative side (I personally like that), with the good stuff later in the text.

Cheers,
Rogelio
It's a perfectly good title Rogelio. I was just having a bit of fun with it. And I find the addition of the Hα clouds, something that most alphaphotographers try to avoid judging from my collection of Andromeda images, is both startlingly fresh and informative. Good one!

Rob

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by robgendler@att.net » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:49 pm

Just an image processing comment. A striking image however the author could have done a better job removing the red hue from all the foreground stars.

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by MarkBour » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:46 am

neufer wrote:
MarkBour wrote:
neufer wrote:
  • Isn't that exactly what that red spiral is "scattered hundreds of light-years" above Andromeda's arms :?:
Art, I'm quite curious as to what you're talking about, but cannot say that I see it in the image.
You don't see a red spiral :?:
Now I'm pretty sure you're having fun with me. So instead of trying to see what you're talking about, I'm trying to remember who said what. But, alas, I get it not.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:02 am

MarkBour wrote:
neufer wrote:
MarkBour wrote: Art, I'm quite curious as to what you're talking about, but cannot say that I see it in the image.
You don't see a red spiral :?:
Now I'm pretty sure you're having fun with me. So instead of trying to see what you're talking about, I'm trying to remember who said what. But, alas, I get it not.
Try looking for red inside "the great galaxy in Andromeda" instead of around it.
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Ann » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:23 am

Those are red rings! Not spirals!

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:34 am

Ann wrote:
heehaw wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:A very APOD worthy photo. I wondered though about it being called "The Clouds of Andromeda", when the red clouds that dominate the view aren't part of Andromeda at all. At least this important point is made clear in the Explanation.

Come to think of it though, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better title though, given the desire for titles to be short and attention grabbing...
Clouds OF Andromeda is not wrong, it is perfect! The wrong nomenclature is "the Andromeda galaxy:" it should be "the galaxy far beyond Andromeda."
Good points, both of you!
Thanks Ann.
I have to wonder how common such thin ionized high-altitude cirrus clouds may be in and around spiral galaxies. Maybe they are quite common? Is it possible that Andromeda herself has such clouds, but we have yet to detect them?
I would think that such thin gas clouds riding high above the disks of spirals would have to be extremely common Ann. Think of all the combined stellar winds from bright and more numerous lesser stars of the disk working together to counteract gravitational attraction back toward the disk. They would have to be extremely hard to detect in other galaxies I would think though. But since they are here, and our galaxy is typical ...

Bruce
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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:57 am

Ann wrote:Those are red rings! Not spirals!

Ann
I would say they share both appearances Ann. A temporary ringlike shape (ripples from a collision) imposed upon the underlying spiral form. How's that?

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Re: APOD: Clouds of Andromeda (2018 Jan 08)

Post by Ann » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:08 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
Ann wrote:Those are red rings! Not spirals!

Ann
I would say they share both appearances Ann. A temporary ringlike shape (ripples from a collision) imposed upon the underlying spiral form. How's that?

Bruce
Fine with me, Bruce! :D I just wanted to join in the gentle teasing, started by Art! (Would you know, by the way, that I really tried to give that blue link a red color? :lol2:

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