APOD: Dual Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 3383
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: Dual Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by APOD Robot » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:06 am

Image Dual Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24

Explanation: This might look like a double-bladed lightsaber, but these two cosmic jets actually beam outward from a newborn star in a galaxy near you. Constructed from Hubble Space Telescope image data, the stunning scene spans about half a light-year across Herbig-Haro 24 (HH 24), some 1,300 light-years away in the stellar nurseries of the Orion B molecular cloud complex. Hidden from direct view, HH 24's central protostar is surrounded by cold dust and gas flattened into a rotating accretion disk. As material from the disk falls toward the young stellar object it heats up. Opposing jets are blasted out along the system's rotation axis. Cutting through the region's interstellar matter, the narrow, energetic jets produce a series of glowing shock fronts along their path.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

richardschumacher

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by richardschumacher » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:46 am

"Dual", not "Duel".

Boomer12k
:---[===] *
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:07 am

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by Boomer12k » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:00 am

"You should not have come back, for now I am the Master".....

Awesome image...
:---[===] *

George

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by George » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:18 am

The description explains the two orange beams, as pointing along rotation axis.
But what causes the bluish beam, pointing to the lower left?

distefanom
Ensign
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:19 am

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by distefanom » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 am

Trying to "read" what this image shows to my eyes, I can see the "lightsaber" that can be explained by the in falling matter into the protostar.
Also the funnel-shaped "cloud" of dust that "rains" into the obscured dust, seems reasonable.
I cannot explain, instead the other *big* tube like structure we can see in the lower left part of the image. it seems to me, that comes out from "behind" the protostar forming cloud.
This "tube" seems, instead a ionized gas "trapped" inside some magnetic field... this tube seems not to come out from the protostar... it's a thing that has another origin, not related to the protostar...
Also I cannot explain the bright "plotches" can be seen just above protostar: what are they?
Anybody noticed the "swirl" of gas just above the right part of the "saber"? What is it? another protostar?
Cannot even realize the distances...

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 8896
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:28 am

distefanom wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 am
Trying to "read" what this image shows to my eyes, I can see the "lightsaber" that can be explained by the in falling matter into the protostar.
Also the funnel-shaped "cloud" of dust that "rains" into the obscured dust, seems reasonable.
I cannot explain, instead the other *big* tube like structure we can see in the lower left part of the image. it seems to me, that comes out from "behind" the protostar forming cloud.
This "tube" seems, instead a ionized gas "trapped" inside some magnetic field... this tube seems not to come out from the protostar... it's a thing that has another origin, not related to the protostar...
Also I cannot explain the bright "plotches" can be seen just above protostar: what are they?
Anybody noticed the "swirl" of gas just above the right part of the "saber"? What is it? another protostar?
Cannot even realize the distances...
The tubes and holes in the clouds are largely punched open by newly forming stars. The jets are not all necessarily as active at the same time as the main "lightsabre" jets.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

starsurfer
Stellar Cartographer
Posts: 3327
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by starsurfer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:46 am

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

User avatar
RJN
Baffled Boffin
Posts: 1481
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Michigan Tech

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by RJN » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:29 pm

richardschumacher wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:46 am
"Dual", not "Duel".
Yes. Sorry. My bad. Oops! Fixed it on the main NASA site. - RJN

User avatar
Astronymus
Ensign
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:26 pm
AKA: Astro
Location: Astroplanet

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by Astronymus » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:36 pm

George wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:18 am
The description explains the two orange beams, as pointing along rotation axis.
But what causes the bluish beam, pointing to the lower left?
Probably jets of other young stars in the neighbourhood?
» Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. But then later there's running and... and screaming. «

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15492
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by neufer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:00 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:28 am
distefanom wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 am

I cannot explain, instead the other *big* tube like structure we can see in the lower left part of the image. it seems to me, that comes out from "behind" the protostar forming cloud. This "tube" seems, instead a ionized gas "trapped" inside some magnetic field... this tube seems not to come out from the protostar... it's a thing that has another origin, not related to the protostar... Also I cannot explain the bright "plotches" can be seen just above protostar: what are they? Anybody noticed the "swirl" of gas just above the right part of the "saber"? What is it? another protostar?
The tubes and holes in the clouds are largely punched open by newly forming stars.
The jets are not all necessarily as active at the same time as the main "lightsabre" jets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbig%E2%80%93Haro_object wrote: .
<<Herbig–Haro (HH) objects are small patches of nebulosity associated with newly born stars, and are formed when narrow jets of partially ionized gas ejected by those stars collide with nearby clouds of gas and dust at speeds of several hundred kilometres per second. Herbig–Haro objects are ubiquitous in star-forming regions, and several are often seen around a single star, aligned with its rotational axis. Near to the source star, about 20–30% of the gas in HH objects is ionized, but this proportion decreases at increasing distances. This implies the material is ionized in the polar jet, and recombines as it moves away from the star, rather than being ionized by later collisions. Shocking at the end of the jet can re-ionize some material, however, giving rise to bright "caps" at the ends of the jets.

HH objects are transient phenomena that last less than a few thousand years. They can evolve visibly over quite short astronomical timescales as they move rapidly away from their parent star into the gas clouds of interstellar space (the interstellar medium or ISM). Hubble Space Telescope observations have revealed the complex evolution of HH objects over the period of a few years, as parts of the nebula fade while others brighten as they collide with clumpy material of the interstellar medium.

The temperatures observed in HH objects are typically about 8000–12,000K, similar to those found in other ionized nebulae such as H II regions and planetary nebulae. Densities, on the other hand, are relatively higher; ranging from a few thousand to a few tens of thousands of particles per cm3, compared to generally less than 1000/cm3 in H II regions and planetary nebulae. Densities also decrease as the source evolves over time. HH objects consist mostly of hydrogen and helium, which account for about 75% and 24% respectively of their mass. Around 1% of the mass of HH objects is made up of heavier chemical elements, including oxygen, sulfur, nitrogen, iron, calcium and magnesium. Abundances of these elements, determined from emission lines of respective ions, are generally similar to their cosmic abundances. Several chemical compounds have been identified in the outflows, including water (ice), methanol, methane, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide (dry ice) and various silicates. Many chemical compounds found in surrounding interstellar medium, which are not present in the source material, such as metal hydrides, are believed to have been produced by shock induced chemical reactions.>>
Art Neuendorffer

De58te
Science Officer
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by De58te » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:07 pm

My theory on what the bluish beam on the left is; If I remember an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation (An episode in the final season though I can't remember its name) Where the Federation scientists discovered that high warp speed was causing damage to the surrounding fabric of space, so they wanted to restrict all warp speed to under Warp 7 or so. Well this looks like possible evidence of a space ship visiting this dual jet protostar and when they left (possibly in a hurry for some reason) they exceeded warp 7 and left behind this visible damage.

Zuben L. Genubi

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by Zuben L. Genubi » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:26 pm

I'm not imagining the curvature over the length of these two particle beams. What might cause that? An artifact of the observation platform? Gravitational influences?

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15492
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by neufer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Zuben L. Genubi wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:26 pm

I'm not imagining the curvature over the length of these two particle beams. What might cause that? An artifact of the observation platform? Gravitational influences?
If it was roughly equal in the two beams and growing conically outward then one could argue that the star was precessing.

As is, it may be more akin to the Liquid Rope-Coil Effect
(; with polar magnetic field lines substituting for viscosity).
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
MarkBour
Subtle Signal
Posts: 779
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:44 pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by MarkBour » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:39 am

distefanom wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 am
Trying to "read" what this image shows to my eyes, I can see the "lightsaber" that can be explained by the in falling matter into the protostar.
Also the funnel-shaped "cloud" of dust that "rains" into the obscured dust, seems reasonable.
I cannot explain, instead the other *big* tube like structure we can see in the lower left part of the image. it seems to me, that comes out from "behind" the protostar forming cloud.
This "tube" seems, instead a ionized gas "trapped" inside some magnetic field... this tube seems not to come out from the protostar... it's a thing that has another origin, not related to the protostar...
Also I cannot explain the bright "plotches" can be seen just above protostar: what are they?
Anybody noticed the "swirl" of gas just above the right part of the "saber"? What is it? another protostar?
Cannot even realize the distances...
I agree, lots more going on in this region than just the 2 jets, and I have the same questions about this beautifully-colored skyscape.

My guess for the bluish shape that appears to form a tube at almost a right angle to the active jets (from our perspective) is that it is the left-over remnant of an earlier jet, perhaps from another young star which did this earlier, but which we still can't see because it has not yet cleared the natal cloud. If that star had made a pair of opposing jets, you'd expect a tube going the other direction as well. I don't see a matching tube in that direction, but I'd say that the molecular cloud looks significantly cleared out in that direction, at least.
Mark Goldfain

Zuben L. Genubi

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by Zuben L. Genubi » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:48 am

Neufe wrote from Tralfamador_
As is, it may be more akin to the Liquid Rope-Coil Effect
(; with polar magnetic field lines substituting for viscosity).
Interesting thought. Is this a documented cosmic phenomenon, or are you speculating that an analogous roping process in HH objects?

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15492
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by neufer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:31 am

Zuben L. Genubi wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:48 am

Neufer wrote from Tralfamadore
As is, it may be more akin to the Liquid Rope-Coil Effect
(; with polar magnetic field lines substituting for viscosity).
Interesting thought. Is this a documented cosmic phenomenon,
or are you speculating that an analogous roping process in HH objects?
I have it on the best authority in Tralfamadore.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Ann
4725 Å
Posts: 9158
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am

Re: APOD: Dual Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by Ann » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:16 am

Ttéia 1,C by Lydia Page.
This work of art is currently on exhibition in Stockholm. It is admittedly far more serene than a region of star formation. The installation, Ttéia 1,C, does suggest golden glittering particle beams, or at least beams of light.

The title, Ttéia 1,C, is interesting, and it suggests to me that the artist takes an interest in astronomy.

Ann
Color Commentator

Billy Boy

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by Billy Boy » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:41 pm

neufer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:31 am

I have it on the best authority in Tralfamadore.
And here I've always thought the only thing Tralfamadoreans were interested in was human romance and reproduction. I'm afraid though that alien credibility is suspect in these times of restricted immigration and border walls.

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15492
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by neufer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:13 pm

Billy Boy wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:41 pm
neufer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:31 am

I have it on the best authority in Tralfamadore.
And here I've always thought the only thing Tralfamadoreans were interested in was human romance and reproduction. I'm afraid though that alien credibility is suspect in these times of restricted immigration and border walls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tralfamadore wrote:
<<"[Tralfamadorians] are two feet high, and green, and shaped like plumber's friends. Their suction cups were on the ground, and their shafts, which were extremely flexible, usually pointed to the sky. At the top of each shaft was a little hand with a green eye in its palm. The creatures are friendly, and they could see in four dimensions. They had many wonderful things to teach Earthlings about time."

Details on the Tralfamadorian inhabitants of Tralfamadore vary from novel to novel:

In Hocus Pocus, Tralfamadore is the planet nearest to a meeting place of ancient multi-dimensional beings who supposedly control all aspects of human life, including social affairs and politics. Unlike humans, the Tralfamadorians have too much of a sense of humor to be affected by the beings. The exploits of the multi-dimensional beings are chronicled in The Protocols of the Elders of Tralfamadore, which is published serially in a pornographic magazine called Black Garterbelt.>>
Art Neuendorffer

n6ac
Asternaut
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:58 pm

Re: APOD: Dual Particle Beams in Herbig-Haro 24 (2018 Mar 11)

Post by n6ac » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:03 pm

Still has the typo "Duel" as Archive title ...
2018 March 11: Duel Particle Beams in Herbig Haro 24