APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

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APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:06 am

Image The Nebra Sky Disk

Explanation: It is considered the oldest known illustration of the night sky. But what, exactly, does it depict, and why was it made? The Nebra sky disk was found with a metal detector in 1999 by treasure hunters near Nebra, Germany, in the midst of several bronze-age weapons. The ancient artifact spans about 30 centimeters and has been associated with the Unetice culture that inhabited part of Europe around 1600 BC. Reconstructed, the dots are thought to represent stars, with the cluster representing the Pleiades, and the large circle and the crescent representing the Sun and Moon. The purpose of the disk remains unknown -- hypotheses including an astronomical clock, a work of art, and a religious symbol. Valued at about $11 million, some believe that the Nebra sky disk is only one of a pair, with the other disk still out there waiting to be discovered.

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ocketRon

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by ocketRon » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:33 am

Survived well, hasn't it.
If you twiddle the dial, does it all move ?!!

Be interesting to see the back of it - blank ?

Given their deep dependence on good harvests and avoiding catastrophes and the deep wonderment at observing the ever changing heavens, be interesting to know where this fitted into the scheme of things.
If only it came with the instruction manual....

RocketRon

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by RocketRon » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:48 am

Its perforated all around the edge.
What was it attached to, we wonder ?

claude grayson

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by claude grayson » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:30 am

what if it was from the high priests cassock or apron., does the double rings on the left signify sirius.?

Guest

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Guest » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:44 am

RocketRon wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:48 am
Its perforated all around the edge.
What was it attached to, we wonder ?
It looks to be the 'nose cone' of a warriors shield. The size appears right, and accounts for the holes to affix it to a wood shield. I suppose it to be some way to draw down the 'power of the sky' to the person using it. Whatever it is, it is pretty cool. What is it made of? Is that gold inlaid on the surface?

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by distefanom » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:45 am

claude grayson wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:30 am
what if it was from the high priests cassock or apron., does the double rings on the left signify sirius.?
Yes, Claude, I agree with you.
I think this not an astronomical instrument: I think, as a fixed object (stars can't move), it's usefulness would be only for certain year periods.
Seeing the pleiades in it, it's *really* a non educated guess on it.
Maybe more something related to some rituals.
In the description , there's a reference to another disc, but I've not been able to see any image of it on the net....
anybody has a reference???

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by inertnet » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:44 am

Turned upside down, the smiley mouth could be the Milky Way.

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by neufer » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:46 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procter_%26_Gamble wrote:


<<Candlemaker William Procter, born in the United Kingdom, and soapmaker James Gamble, born in Ireland, emigrated from England and Ireland, respectively. They settled in Cincinnati initially and met when they married sisters Olivia and Elizabeth Norris. Alexander Norris, their father-in-law, persuaded his new sons-in-law to become business partners. On October 31, 1837, as a result of the suggestion, Procter & Gamble was created.

During the American Civil War, the company won contracts to supply the Union Army with soap and candles. In the 1880s, Procter & Gamble began to market an inexpensive soap that floats in water. The company called the soap Ivory. In 1911, began producing Crisco, a shortening made of vegetable oils rather than animal fats. As radio became more popular in the 1920s and 1930s, the company sponsored a number of radio programs. As a result, these shows often became commonly known as "soap operas".>>
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sunson

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by sunson » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:10 pm

claude grayson wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:30 am
what if it was from the high priests cassock or apron., does the double rings on the left signify sirius.?
Thought the same!

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by RJN » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:41 pm

It has been pointed out in the Facebook comments that, effectively, there are even older cave paintings that might depict stars. See, for example http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/871930.stm . I therefore have modified the first few words of the NASA APOD to indicate that the designation as the "oldest known illustration of the night sky" is controversial. I myself had not known about that some thought that stars were considered, by some, as depicted on very ancient cave paintings before. I apologize for the oversight.
- RJN

Drooper

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Drooper » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:51 pm

neufer wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:46 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procter_%26_Gamble wrote:In the 1880s, Procter & Gamble began to market an inexpensive soap that floats in water. The company called the soap Ivory.
The story goes that a worker fell asleep at his soap mixing machine while it was running and it ran far longer than the recipe called for, causing the vat to foam over, make a mess , etc. The company salvaged what they could and packaged the soap for sale anyway hoping to prevent the incident from being a total financial loss. Within a few weeks the company started getting requests for more of the "soap that floats" and it grew exponentially from there. The poor schmuck who invented the floating soap however, was fired on the spot for sleeping on the job and his name has disappeared into obscurity.

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by neufer » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:48 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Barritt wrote:
<<Leon Barritt (1852–1938) was an American illustrator, cartoonist, journalist, and amateur astronomer. He produced a famous cartoon satirizing Joseph Pulitzer and William Randolph Hearst, co-invented with Garrett P. Serviss the Barritt–Serviss Star and Planet Finder, a popular star chart sold into the 1950s, and, after losing his artistic ability to paralysis, founded The Monthly Evening Sky Map magazine. Born in Saugerties, New York, he began as a news agent in his home town before moving to Boston to work as an engraver. After a year in Minnesota, he returned to New York in 1884, where he became cartoonist for the New York Press.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_P._Serviss wrote:

<<Garrett Putnam Serviss (March 24, 1851 – May 25, 1929) was an American astronomer, popularizer of astronomy, and early science fiction writer. Serviss was born in upstate New York and majored in science at Cornell University. He took a law degree at Columbia University but never worked as an attorney. Instead, in 1876 he joined the staff of The New York Sun newspaper, working as a journalist until 1892 under editor Charles Dana. In his private life, Serviss was an enthusiastic mountain climber. He described his reaching the summit of the Matterhorn at the age of 43 as part of an effort "to get as far away from terrestrial gravity as possible." His son was the Olympic high jumper Garrett Serviss.

Serviss showed a talent for explaining scientific details in a way that made them clear to the ordinary reader, leading Andrew Carnegie to invite him to deliver The Urania Lectures in 1894 on astronomy, cosmology, geology, and related matters. With Carnegie's financial backing, these lectures were illustrated with magic lantern slides and other effects to show eclipses, presumed lunar landscapes, and much else. Serviss toured the United States for over two years delivering these lectures, then settled down to become a popular speaker in the New York area. He also wrote a syndicated newspaper column devoted to astronomy and other sciences and wrote frequently for the leading magazines of the day.

Serviss was unquestionably was more widely read by the public on astronomy than anyone prior to his time. He worked with Max and Dave Fleischer on The Einstein Theory of Relativity (1923), a short silent film released in connection with one of Serviss' books. He also wrote six works of fiction in his lifetime, all of which would today be classified as science fiction. Five of these were novels, and one was a short story.>>
Art Neuendorffer

Rita Cummins

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Rita Cummins » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:23 pm

It could depict the night sky between sunrise and sunset. The two curved bars to the right and left (the left one is missing) could represent sunrise and sunset. That would leave two phases of the moon, a comet, the Pleades, and assorted stars. Sewn to the garment of an astrologer of some sort, religious or magical.

Rita Cummins

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Rita Cummins » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:23 pm

It could depict the night sky between sunrise and sunset. The two curved bars to the right and left (the left one is missing) could represent sunrise and sunset. That would leave two phases of the moon, a comet, the Pleades, and assorted stars. Sewn to the garment of an astrologer of some sort, religious or magical.

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by MarkBour » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm

I love how the APOD caption, in typical fashion, says "... spans about 30 cm". But at how many light years? :-)
Mark Goldfain

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by geckzilla » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:41 pm

MarkBour wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm
I love how the APOD caption, in typical fashion, says "... spans about 30 cm". But at how many light years? :-)
Google's handy search calculator indicates that 30 cm is about 3.171e-17 light years. I get annoyed when small wavelengths are measured in meters, but that's nothing compared to this.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

Anonymous1

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Anonymous1 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:13 pm

It is a disk with 30 tiny moons (one missing at top left) and 40 peg holes. It has a couple of wide crescents like the band of the Milky Way and a basket over the larger band (perhaps denoting summer). The big moon in the middle may just be a way of saying it is for counting moons. I think it is a 50 year calendar. Every 30 moons a string would be drawn across the center to connect two pegs. 30 X 40 / 12 / 2 = 50 years. If the string idea is replaced by inserting pegs instead, it becomes 100 years.

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Boomer12k » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:32 pm

There is another "interpretation" of the bottom golden area.... an ECLIPSE...
"The Smile"...between "The Sun and The Moon"...you get an Eclipse...

Just my thought....
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Sa Ji Tario

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:53 pm

Cuando conté los orificios del borde pensé en la cantidad de faces lunares que corresponden a la duración de la gestación humana y por los demás datos (mensaje, material, tamaño etc.) se me ocurrió una similitud con los disco de las Voyager
When I counted the holes in the edge I thought about the number of lunar faces that correspond to the duration of the human pregnancy and for the other data (message, material, size, etc.) a similarity with the Voyager discs occurred to me

JBurton

Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by JBurton » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:09 pm

The disk as pictured seems upside down; with the moon in the center during the evening, the bottom arc may be an aurora, the larger arc to the right is an eclipsing sun, with yes, the Pleiades, and the milky Way. Just my 2-cents, if that!

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by neufer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:42 am


APOD Robot wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:06 am
Image The Nebra Sky Disk

Explanation: Valued at about $11 million, some believe that the Nebra sky disk is only one of a pair, with the other disk still out there waiting to be discovered.
  • A rustic outhouse in a yard near Nebraska City, Nebraska. :arrow:
    • Photo by Dorothy Rieke
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by MarkBour » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:19 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:41 pm
MarkBour wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm
I love how the APOD caption, in typical fashion, says "... spans about 30 cm". But at how many light years? :-)
Google's handy search calculator indicates that 30 cm is about 3.171e-17 light years. I get annoyed when small wavelengths are measured in meters, but that's nothing compared to this.
Well, I was referring to the formula that RJN often uses (e.g. "The image spans about 100 light-years in the constellation Monoceros, at the 3,000 light-year estimated distance of the Rosette Nebula.") So, I was really looking for the distance estimate that was missing in today's description. But thanks for your calculation! Since the distance estimate here is probably about the same as the span estimate, I think your calculation has helped me with both.
Mark Goldfain

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by MarkBour » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:36 pm

neufer wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:42 am

APOD Robot wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:06 am
Image The Nebra Sky Disk

Explanation: Valued at about $11 million, some believe that the Nebra sky disk is only one of a pair, with the other disk still out there waiting to be discovered.
  • A rustic outhouse in a yard near Nebraska City, Nebraska. :arrow:
    • Photo by Dorothy Rieke
Oh, how did Wisconsin, boy
She stole a New-brass-key
Too bad that Arkansaw, boy
And so did Tennessee
-- Perry Como
Mark Goldfain

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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by neufer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:48 pm

MarkBour wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:19 pm
geckzilla wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:41 pm
MarkBour wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm

I love how the APOD caption, in typical fashion, says "... spans about 30 cm". But at how many light years? :-)
Google's handy search calculator indicates that 30 cm is about 3.171e-17 light years.
I get annoyed when small wavelengths are measured in meters, but that's nothing compared to this.
Well, I was referring to the formula that RJN often uses (e.g. "The image spans about 100 light-years in the constellation Monoceros, at the 3,000 light-year estimated distance of the Rosette Nebula.") So, I was really looking for the distance estimate that was missing in today's description. But thanks for your calculation! Since the distance estimate here is probably about the same as the span estimate, I think your calculation has helped me with both.
  • Troilus and Cressida : Act II, scene II
TROILUS: Weigh you the worth and honour of a king
  • So great as our dread father in a scale
    Of common ounces? will you with counters sum
    The past proportion of his infinite?
    And buckle in a waist most fathomless
    With spans and inches so diminutive
    As fears and reasons? fie, for godly shame!
https://www.etymonline.com/word/span wrote:
span (n.1) "distance between two objects," from Old English span "distance between the thumb and little finger of an extended hand" (as a measure of length, roughly nine inches), probably related to Middle Dutch spannen "to join, fasten," from Proto-Germanic "spannan."

The Germanic word was borrowed into Medieval Latin as spannus, hence Italian spanna, Old French espan "hand's width, span as a unit of measure," French empan. As a measure of volume (early 14c.), "what can be held in two cupped hands." Meaning "length of time" first attested 1590s:
  • Othello : Act II, scene III
IAGO: Some wine, ho!
  • [Sings]

    And let me the canakin clink, clink;
    And let me the canakin clink
    A soldier's a man;
    A life's but a span;
    Why, then, let a soldier drink.
    Some wine, boys!
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Re: APOD: The Nebra Sky Disk (2018 Mar 19)

Post by geckzilla » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:06 pm

MarkBour wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:19 pm
geckzilla wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:41 pm
MarkBour wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm
I love how the APOD caption, in typical fashion, says "... spans about 30 cm". But at how many light years? :-)
Google's handy search calculator indicates that 30 cm is about 3.171e-17 light years. I get annoyed when small wavelengths are measured in meters, but that's nothing compared to this.
Well, I was referring to the formula that RJN often uses (e.g. "The image spans about 100 light-years in the constellation Monoceros, at the 3,000 light-year estimated distance of the Rosette Nebula.") So, I was really looking for the distance estimate that was missing in today's description. But thanks for your calculation! Since the distance estimate here is probably about the same as the span estimate, I think your calculation has helped me with both.
Yeah, I have a pretty bad habit of missing small words and misunderstanding things slightly. Ah, well. Close enough.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.