APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 3641
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by APOD Robot » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:10 am

Image The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole

Explanation: Bright elliptical galaxy Messier 87 (M87) is home to the supermassive black hole captured by planet Earth's Event Horizon Telescope in the first ever image of a black hole. Giant of the Virgo galaxy cluster about 55 million light-years away, M87 is the large galaxy rendered in blue hues in this infrared image from the Spitzer Space telescope. Though M87 appears mostly featureless and cloud-like, the Spitzer image does record details of relativistic jets blasting from the galaxy's central region. Shown in the inset at top right, the jets themselves span thousands of light-years. The brighter jet seen on the right is approaching and close to our line of sight. Opposite, the shock created by the otherwise unseen receding jet lights up a fainter arc of material. Inset at bottom right, the historic black hole image is shown in context, at the center of giant galaxy and relativistic jets. Completely unresolved in the Spitzer image, the supermassive black hole surrounded by infalling material is the source of the enormous energy driving the relativistic jets from the center of active galaxy M87.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

Boomer12k
:---[===] *
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:07 am

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by Boomer12k » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:27 am

Good way to show the perspective...

:---[===] *

User avatar
JohnD
Tea Time, Guv! Cheerio!
Posts: 1157
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: Lancaster, England

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by JohnD » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:22 am

Yes, and thank you for literally putting the BH 'picture' into perspective, orientating it in our view.

There's a pic of the M87 jet in an old APOD here: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110828.html
And other views here: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap041211.html

Is there any analogy to explain these jets? I think of a basin/bath plughole, but tht's too like the matter disappearing into the BH.
JOhn

heehaw

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by heehaw » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:34 am

Thanks a million for this great assembly showing what is really going on; it was derelict that this kind of thing was not provided as part of the initial press conference. Oh, and jets looking the same come out the north and south poles even of stars forming; they require magnetic fields (I am told) but they do not require black holes. For M87 they point back to where exactly to look for the black hole, whose existence (I am told) was also inferred from the motion of stars near the black hole's location. I'm also annoyed by press calling anything a 'picture of a black hole' since no radiation of any kind can emerge from the black hole itself to make any picture possible: we just have, now, powerful additional evidence, from a glorious picture indeed, that what is in the center is really, indeed, a black hole (as we already were confident there was).

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 4935
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by orin stepanek » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:28 pm

Awesome creatures; these black holes! :shock: don't go :rocketship: near one :mrgreen:
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
Ann
4725 Å
Posts: 9678
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by Ann » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:51 pm

Nice post, Orin! :mrgreen:

I agree with the others (and with Orin too, though in another way). It's very nice to have an APOD that puts the black hole in perspective.

Ann
Color Commentator

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16152
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by neufer » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:39 pm

heehaw wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:34 am

I'm also annoyed by press calling anything a 'picture of a black hole' since no radiation of any kind can emerge from the black hole itself to make any picture possible: we just have, now, powerful additional evidence, from a glorious picture indeed, that what is in the center is really, indeed, a black hole (as we already were confident there was).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tie ... Silhouette

<<Étienne de Silhouette (5 July 1709 – 20 January 1767) was a French Ancien Régime Controller-General of Finances under Louis XV. De Silhouette forecast a bleak budget for 1760: income of 286 million livres compared to expenses of 503 million livres, including at least 94 million in debt service. In an attempt to restore the kingdom's finances by the English method of taxing the rich and privileged (nobility and church were exempt from taxes in the Ancien Régime), de Silhouette devised the "general subvention," i.e., taxes on external signs of wealth (doors and windows, farms, luxury goods, servants, profits). He was criticized by the nobility including Voltaire, who thought his measures, though theoretically beneficial, were not suitable for wartime and the French political situation.

Despite Étienne de Silhouette's short tenure as Treasury Chief, it caused him to become the subject of hostility. His penny-pinching manner led the term à la Silhouette to be applied to things perceived as cheap or austere. During this period an Art form of growing popularity was a shadow profile cut from black paper. It provided a simple and inexpensive alternative for those who could not afford more decorative and expensive forms of portraiture, such as painting or sculpture. Those who considered it cheap attached the word "silhouette" to it.>>
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Ann
4725 Å
Posts: 9678
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by Ann » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:46 pm

Does my eye spy an Alfred Hitchcock-shaped hole guy?

Ann
Color Commentator

JET999

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by JET999 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:30 pm

THIS LOOKS LIKE A COLONOSCOPY! :roll:

JET999

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by JET999 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:31 pm

LOOKS LIKE A COLONOSCOPY! :roll:

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16152
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by neufer » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 pm






Note that the first BLOW-UP is a factor of ~2

whereas the second BLOW-UP is a factor of ~300,000 !
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16152
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by neufer » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:29 pm

Ann wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:46 pm

Does my eye spy an Alfred Hitchcock-shaped hole guy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Chorley wrote:


Henry Fothergill Chorley (15 December 1808 – 16 February 1872) was an English literary, art and music critic, writer and editor. He was also an author of novels, drama, poetry and lyrics. Chorley was considered eccentric and abrasive, but he was respected for his integrity and kindness.

In spite of his efforts to promote the music of Charles Gounod in England, the composer disliked Chorley intensely. When Gounod lived in England during the early 1870s, he wrote a satirical character piece for piano that was intended to be a parody of Chorley's personality. It greatly amused Gounod's English patron, Georgina Weldon, who described Chorley as having a "thin, sour, high-pitched sopranish voice" and moving like a "stuffed red-haired monkey." Gounod intended to publish the piece with a dedication to Chorley, but the latter died before this was possible. Weldon then invented a new program for the piece, which was re-titled Funeral March of a Marionette. It became popular as a concert piece, and in the 1950s, its opening phrases became well known as the theme music for the television program Alfred Hitchcock Presents.>>
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
alter-ego
Serendipitous Sleuthhound
Posts: 846
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:51 am
Location: Redmond, WA

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by alter-ego » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:26 am

neufer wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 pm
...
whereas the second BLOW-UP is a factor of ~300,000 !
You've underestimated that factor by almost 3x. The 2nd inset is 85 arcsec square and the EHT image is about 100 microarcsec square. The FoV of the 2nd inset is 850,000 x larger than the EHT image.
A pessimist is nothing more than an experienced optimist

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16152
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by neufer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm

alter-ego wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:26 am
neufer wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 pm
...
whereas the second BLOW-UP is a factor of ~300,000 !
You've underestimated that factor by almost 3x. The 2nd inset is 85 arcsec square and the EHT image is about 100 microarcsec square. The FoV of the 2nd inset is 850,000 x larger than the EHT image.
The EHT image is more than 200 microarcsec square.
(Latest Science News article gives the observed black hole, itself, a width of 42 microarcsecs.)
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
alter-ego
Serendipitous Sleuthhound
Posts: 846
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:51 am
Location: Redmond, WA

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by alter-ego » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:03 pm

neufer wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm
alter-ego wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:26 am
neufer wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 pm
...
whereas the second BLOW-UP is a factor of ~300,000 !
You've underestimated that factor by almost 3x. The 2nd inset is 85 arcsec square and the EHT image is about 100 microarcsec square. The FoV of the 2nd inset is 850,000 x larger than the EHT image.
The EHT image is more than 200 microarcsec square.
(Latest Science News article gives the observed black hole, itself, a width of 42 microarcsecs.)
I'm not sure about the science news article. I tend to go with original sources, here the ApJ Letters paper.
 
First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. I. The Shadow of the Supermassive Black Hole
 
M87 BH Scaling.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
A pessimist is nothing more than an experienced optimist

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 14458
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:15 pm

neufer wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm
alter-ego wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:26 am
neufer wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 pm
...
whereas the second BLOW-UP is a factor of ~300,000 !
You've underestimated that factor by almost 3x. The 2nd inset is 85 arcsec square and the EHT image is about 100 microarcsec square. The FoV of the 2nd inset is 850,000 x larger than the EHT image.
The EHT image is more than 200 microarcsec square.
(Latest Science News article gives the observed black hole, itself, a width of 42 microarcsecs.)
I'd say the EHT inset image is almost exactly 100 μas across.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 16152
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by neufer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:24 pm

alter-ego wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:03 pm
neufer wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm
alter-ego wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:26 am

You've underestimated that factor by almost 3x. The 2nd inset is 85 arcsec square and the EHT image is about 100 microarcsec square. The FoV of the 2nd inset is 850,000 x larger than the EHT image.
The EHT image is more than 200 microarcsec square.
(Latest Science News article gives the observed black hole, itself, a width of 42 microarcsecs.)
I'm not sure about the science news article. I tend to go with original sources, here the ApJ Letters paper.
 
First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. I. The Shadow of the Supermassive Black Hole
I guess my confusion was in not taking into account the smearing of the image
that considerably reduces the 42 microarcsec width of the apparent black hole.
Art Neuendorffer

TheZuke!
Ensign
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:19 pm

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by TheZuke! » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:37 pm

JohnD wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:22 am
Yes, and thank you for literally putting the BH 'picture' into perspective,
As I mentioned earlier, it looks like the Black Hole is "mooning" us.
Calling it "BH", further makes me think of it as "butt hole".
:facepalm:

TheZuke!
Ensign
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:19 pm

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by TheZuke! » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:53 pm

neufer wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:39 pm
an attempt to restore the kingdom's finances by the English method of taxing the rich and privileged (nobility and church were exempt from taxes in the Ancien Régime), de Silhouette devised the "general subvention," i.e., taxes on external signs of wealth (doors and windows, farms, luxury goods, servants, profits).
This is seen in the US in a Chateau built by a French nobleman the "Marquis de Mores" in Medora, North Dakota in the 1880's.
http://www.history.nd.gov/historicsites/chateau/
Almost every room on the main floor has an exterior door and a number of rooms have two doors to each adjacent room (ostensibly one set for servants). The tour guides said this design allowed more light into each room and to circumvent the window tax of France (although such a tax would not be valid in the US)

P.s. I apologize for not getting the quote accreditation right.

User avatar
JohnD
Tea Time, Guv! Cheerio!
Posts: 1157
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: Lancaster, England

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by JohnD » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:26 pm

TheZuke! wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:37 pm
JohnD wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:22 am
Yes, and thank you for literally putting the BH 'picture' into perspective,
As I mentioned earlier, it looks like the Black Hole is "mooning" us.
Calling it "BH", further makes me think of it as "butt hole".
:facepalm:
The literature of Black Hole studies in Russian is complicated by a certain gentility, so you need to search for several different descriptive terms. They call such an object a "dark star", or another circumlution, such as место заключения (Prison place), because "Black Hole" is a literal translation of a Russian slang term for the same place as you refer to, Zuke.

John

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 18684
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: APOD: The Galaxy, the Jet, and the Black Hole (2019 Apr 27)

Post by bystander » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:31 pm

Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
— Garrison Keillor