APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

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APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by APOD Robot » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:05 am

Image Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet

Explanation: A dramatic nocturnal landscape from around 1850, this oil painting is the work of French artist Jean-Francois Millet. In the dark and atmospheric night sky are shooting stars, known too as meteors, above a landscape showing a path through the faintly lit countryside that leads toward trees and a cart in silhouette on the horizon. Millet was raised in a farming family in Normandy and is known for his paintings of rural scenes and peasant life. This Starry Night was painted after the artist moved to Barbizon, about 30 kilometers southeast of any 19th century light pollution from Paris. Millet wrote to his brother at this time, "If only you knew how beautiful the night is ... the calm and grandeur of it are so awesome that I find that I actually feel overwhelmed." Dutch artist Vincent van Gogh was an admirer of Millet's work, and later also painted two dramatic starry nights.

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Ann » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:24 am

Thank you for this lovely APOD, which celebrates the beauty and splendour of the starry night sky.

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by JohnD » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:07 am

He shows the meteors as having a curved course, like a firework, when they always appear straight. "Artistic licence"?
John

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by rstevenson » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:34 am

Has Millet accurately rendered a particular group of stars? Or is it just a star-like spatter of paint?

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by orin stepanek » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:21 am

Have you ever wished upon a star when you were a kid? :wink:
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Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by GeoXXX » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:27 am

I like the touch of the two stars reflected in the water in the wagon ruts.
Eric

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by GeoXXX » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:31 am

rstevenson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:34 am
Has Millet accurately rendered a particular group of stars? Or is it just a star-like spatter of paint?

Rob
The three stars in a row in the upper right look suspiciously like the belt of Orion but I can’t recognize anything else...
Eric

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Peter Smith » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:11 pm

GeoXXX wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:31 am
rstevenson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:34 am
Has Millet accurately rendered a particular group of stars? Or is it just a star-like spatter of paint?

Rob
The three stars in a row in the upper right look suspiciously like the belt of Orion but I can’t recognize anything else...
Eric
I agree, then the blurry stars below them and at top right wouldn't be far out of place for Orion's sword and the Pleiades. Maybe Procyon for the bright star on the left?

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by TheZuke! » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:39 pm

Peter Smith wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:11 pm
GeoXXX wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:31 am
rstevenson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:34 am
Has Millet accurately rendered a particular group of stars? Or is it just a star-like spatter of paint?

Rob
The three stars in a row in the upper right look suspiciously like the belt of Orion but I can’t recognize anything else...
Eric
I agree, then the blurry stars below them and at top right wouldn't be far out of place for Orion's sword and the Pleiades. Maybe Procyon for the bright star on the left?
To me, Sirius, rather than Procyon, is more "in-line" with Orion's Belt.

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Ann » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:44 pm

TheZuke! wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:39 pm
Peter Smith wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:11 pm
GeoXXX wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:31 am


The three stars in a row in the upper right look suspiciously like the belt of Orion but I can’t recognize anything else...
Eric
I agree, then the blurry stars below them and at top right wouldn't be far out of place for Orion's sword and the Pleiades. Maybe Procyon for the bright star on the left?
To me, Sirius, rather than Procyon, is more "in-line" with Orion's Belt.
Looks like Procyon and Orion's Belt to me. Other than that, I think we're talking about artistic license. :wink:

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Ed S » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:10 pm

Despite their curved paths I was wondering if the meteors were part of some known meteor shower since they seem to emanate from the same region in the sky.

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:15 pm

JohnD wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:07 am
He shows the meteors as having a curved course, like a firework, when they always appear straight. "Artistic licence"?
John
In a photographic image, long meteors normally appear with curved trails, because of projection distortion. Presenting a long trail as straight would actually be the artistic license!
Chris

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by neufer » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:31 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:15 pm
JohnD wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:07 am

He shows the meteors as having a curved course, like a firework, when they always appear straight.

"Artistic licence"?
In a photographic image, long meteors normally appear with curved trails, because of projection distortion.
Presenting a long trail as straight would actually be the artistic license!
The meteors are moving fast enough to be white hot from friction
yet slow enough to clearly show the effects of gravity :?:

Meteors slow enough to show the effects of gravity are dark stealth meteors.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=licence wrote:
Poetic license "intentional deviation from recognized form or rule" is from 1733, earlier as lycence poetycall (1530).

licence (n.) late 14c., "formal authorization, official permission, permit, privilege," from Old French licence "freedom, liberty, power, possibility; permission," (12c.), from Latin licentia "freedom, liberty; unrestrained liberty, wantonness, presumption," from licentem (nominative licens), present participle of licere "to be allowed, be lawful." Meaning "formal (usually written) permission from authority to do something" (marry, hunt, drive, etc.) is first attested early 15c. Meaning "excessive liberty, disregard of propriety" in English is from mid-15c. In Middle English spelled licence, licens, lisence, lissens, licance.

There have been attempts to confine license to verbal use and licence to noun use (compare advise/advice, devise/device, etc.).

license (v.) c. 1400, "grant formal authorization to do what would be illegal to do without it," from licence (n.), which see for modern differentiation of spelling.
Artistic "disregard of propriety" N(onsens)euendorffer

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by JShepp64 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:41 pm

Millet has produced a partially accurate painting of the winter night sky. Starting with the belt of Orion, one sees it points down (roughly) to Sirius and can see the other major stars of Canis Major. In the other direction (going up from the belt) the accuracy seems to fail, as it looks like Aldebaran and the Pleaides have been dragged to far eastward, just to make it in the painting (or maybe I am misinterpreting some of Orion's "shield" stars here). One can also see the "sword" of Orion (containing the Orion Nebula - M42) and Rigel to its lower-right. What intrigues me is how bright he has represented Algiebba ("eta" Orionis). It appears as bright as Sirius, although this variable star isn't supposed to exceed +3.34 Mag. This sar is really a quadruple system with an eclipsing binary. Why did he show it so bright? At any rate, the meteors are definitely artistic license, with their arc-like appearance. Although loooonnnnggg meteors show a curve on photographs, I believe these are too short to do so. Were they added for interest?

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:50 pm

neufer wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:31 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:15 pm
JohnD wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:07 am

He shows the meteors as having a curved course, like a firework, when they always appear straight.

"Artistic licence"?
In a photographic image, long meteors normally appear with curved trails, because of projection distortion.
Presenting a long trail as straight would actually be the artistic license!
The meteors are moving fast enough to be white hot from friction
yet slow enough to clearly show the effects of gravity :?:

Meteors slow enough to show the effects of gravity are dark stealth meteors.
Well, the effects of gravity don't depend upon the speed of the meteor. Instrumentally, we see even short trail meteors having their paths deviated from linear by gravity. The deviation isn't large enough to appear visually, however. In an image, curved trails are the result of projection.

In dark flight, meteors (now called "meteorites") fall nearly vertically, subject only to gravity and the forces from wind.
_
20150101_062642_005x.jpg
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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by JohnD » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:07 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:15 pm
JohnD wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:07 am
He shows the meteors as having a curved course, like a firework, when they always appear straight. "Artistic licence"?
John
In a photographic image, long meteors normally appear with curved trails, because of projection distortion. Presenting a long trail as straight would actually be the artistic license!
Thnak you, Chris, I acknowledge your vastly greater experience! But every meteor I've ever seen, for real on in a photo, was too brief to have a curved trail - except this one: https://phys.org/news/2014-04-meteor-sh ... trail.html and as that is billed as being from an "All-sky camera", I think some distortion is present. Nothing wrong with artistic licence, Millet was quite an artist and this is an artistic work, not an astronomical record!

Glad to see it, I only knew van Gogh's "Starry Night" before, and that has a LOT more 'artistic licence'!
John

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by davtrujillo@hotmail.com » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:44 pm

beautiful picture, but i'm sorry you didn't mention the awesome depiction of the orion nebula so prominently drawn. it was right on.

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by neufer » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:18 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:50 pm
neufer wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:31 pm

The meteors are moving fast enough to be white hot from friction yet slow enough to clearly show the effects of gravity :?: Meteors slow enough to show the effects of gravity are dark stealth meteors.
Well, the effects of gravity don't depend upon the speed of the meteor. Instrumentally, we see even short trail meteors having their paths deviated from linear by gravity. The deviation isn't large enough to appear visually, however. In an image, curved trails are the result of projection.

In dark flight, meteors (now called "meteorites") fall nearly vertically, subject only to gravity and the forces from wind.
Like shuttlecocks, meteors/meteorites will rapidly transition from quasi-straight line kinetic motion to quasi-vertical free-fall.

When moving rapid enough to be visibly bright, however, meteors/meteorites will be in quasi-straight line kinetic motion.
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:58 pm

neufer wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:18 pm
When moving rapid enough to be visibly bright, however, meteors/meteorites will be in quasi-straight line kinetic motion.
Quasi? If you like. As I noted, meteors do curve significantly towards the center of the Earth during their flight. It's not enough to be visible to the eye, but it always shows up in instrumental data and has to be included in calculations to work out the trajectory of the meteor and the orbit of the meteoroid. (The factor is called "zenith attraction".)
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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by neufer » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:25 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:58 pm
neufer wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:18 pm

When moving rapid enough to be visibly bright, however, meteors/meteorites will be in quasi-straight line kinetic motion.
Quasi? If you like. As I noted, meteors do curve significantly towards the center of the Earth during their flight. It's not enough to be visible to the eye, but it always shows up in instrumental data and has to be included in calculations to work out the trajectory of the meteor and the orbit of the meteoroid. (The factor is called "zenith attraction".)
Presumably the meteors weren't "instrumental" to Jean-François Millet (Oct. 4, 1814 – Jan. 20, 1875)
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by JohnD » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:30 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:58 pm
neufer wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:18 pm
When moving rapid enough to be visibly bright, however, meteors/meteorites will be in quasi-straight line kinetic motion.
Quasi? If you like. As I noted, meteors do curve significantly towards the center of the Earth during their flight. It's not enough to be visible to the eye, but it always shows up in instrumental data and has to be included in calculations to work out the trajectory of the meteor and the orbit of the meteoroid. (The factor is called "zenith attraction".)
And not as Millet painted them.

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by rstevenson » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:23 pm

Thanks all. As usual I learned much more from the discussion than I had asked for.

Keep on asterisking...

Rob

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by CuriousChimp » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:40 am

APOD Robot wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:05 am
Image Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet

Explanation: ... "If only you knew how beautiful the night is ... the calm and grandeur of it are so awesome that I find that I actually feel overwhelmed." Dutch artist Vincent van Gogh was an admirer of Millet's work, and later also painted two dramatic starry nights.
The night sky is beautiful but "Starry Night", from both artists, is not. They look like what I see when I remove my corrective lenses from before my eyes to let my myopia and astigmatisms loose. They are quite ugly.

I don't grasp how those are "great art". I've seen covers of SF paperbacks with much prettier, much lovelier images.

Am I missing things?

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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:38 am

CuriousChimp wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:40 am
Am I missing things?
To each their own, but some art is properly enjoyed with history lessons. Nocturnes are a rare kind of painting, and van Gogh... is van Gogh.
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Re: APOD: Starry Night by Jean-Francois Millet (2020 Mar 13)

Post by epitalon » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:27 pm

Ann wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:44 pm
TheZuke! wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:39 pm
Peter Smith wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:11 pm


I agree, then the blurry stars below them and at top right wouldn't be far out of place for Orion's sword and the Pleiades. Maybe Procyon for the bright star on the left?
To me, Sirius, rather than Procyon, is more "in-line" with Orion's Belt.
Looks like Procyon and Orion's Belt to me. Other than that, I think we're talking about artistic license. :wink:

Ann
At first, I thought it was Sirius. But the set of stars around it look as Taurus horizontaly mirrored, with the bright star beeing Aldebaran. As a proof, I would like to point to this view of Taurus: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190107.html
Maybe the painter wanted to fill his picture with many stars and still wanted to stay close to the real.