APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 3236
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:10 am

Image Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in Infrared

Explanation: What would it look like to fly over the North Pole of Jupiter? A fictional animation made from real images and data captured by NASA's Juno spacecraft shows an answer. Since the pole is presently in shadow, the video uses infrared light emitted by Jupiter -- specifically an infrared color where the hottest features glows the brightest. As the animation starts, Juno zooms in on the enormous world. Soon, one of the eight cyclones orbiting the North Pole is featured. One by one, all eight cyclones circling the pole are inspected, each the size of an entire continent on Earth, and each containing bumpy and fragmented spiral walls. The virtual trip ends with a zoom out. Studying Jovian cyclones helps humanity to better understand dangerous storm systems that occur here on Earth. Juno has recently concluded another close pass by Jupiter -- Perijove 12 -- and seems healthy enough to complete several more of the two-month orbits.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

distefanom
Ensign
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:19 am

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by distefanom » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 am

Sincerely I cannot quite understand the purpose of this little video.
Sure, the presentation is really dramatic, only thinking at the size of the features can be seen.
But I disagree to see the temperature differences as height and show them as "mountains".
Maybe altimeter data (dunno if is available) would have been more "realistic" in this pan view...
Also give more significance to what's in the video.
oh well... it's just an opinion...
The "looney tunes" time is ended for me from a long time...
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looney_Tu ... careta.png

Boomer12k
:---[===] *
Posts: 2255
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:07 am

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by Boomer12k » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:34 am

Awesome....Eight Cyclones over the North Pole.... ummm.... so, do they have 8 SANTAS???

:---[===] *

Boomer12k
:---[===] *
Posts: 2255
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:07 am

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by Boomer12k » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:38 am

distefanom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 am
Sincerely I cannot quite understand the purpose of this little video.
Sure, the presentation is really dramatic, only thinking at the size of the features can be seen.
But I disagree to see the temperature differences as height and show them as "mountains".
Maybe altimeter data (dunno if is available) would have been more "realistic" in this pan view...
Also give more significance to what's in the video.
oh well... it's just an opinion...
The "looney tunes" time is ended for me from a long time...
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looney_Tu ... careta.png
I wonder if the differences in Temperature also correspond to height of clouds... or if this is just an illusion of highs and lows... "brighter = hotter"... is hotter actually lower in altitude as well?

:---[===] *

User avatar
JohnD
Tea Time, Guv! Cheerio!
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: Lancaster, England

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by JohnD » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:53 am

This video is from the NASA website https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/nasa-s ... north-pole and the length of caption possible on an APOD is tiny comopared to the discussion of the video, its purpose and implicatiinsthat it gets at NASA. distefanom, you should go there, and remember that APOD includes links that amplify the necessarily short text that accompanies each, such as "fictional animation", which goes to a different NASA page on Jupiters pole stoms https://www.missionjuno.swri.edu/news/j ... north-pole

My question is about the state of the storms. Six appear smooth and 'organised', like a carefully drawn pattern in the top of a cup of coffee, but two, opposite each otjher around the pole, have a chaotic jumble imposed on the same spiral structure. Is this an artefact of the reconstruction, or is there some mechanism behind it?

JOhn

distefanom
Ensign
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:19 am

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by distefanom » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:22 am

Hi JohnD,
My point was on the thing to use the temperature shown as "height", non to the shortness of the video; which I agree with you.
For me, "colder" won't mean necessarily "higher" using the common sense.
That's why I think altimeter data would have had more meaning.
ciao
Mario

NCTom

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by NCTom » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:10 am

May be wrong here, but having lived in the Atlantic's hurricane alley on the US eastern coast, my experience is the strength of the hurricane was often seen in the height of its cloud tops where they would be the coldest. The heat generating the power of the hurricane came from its proximity to the warm ocean waters on the bottom, the warmer the water the faster and stronger the storm would grow. With NASA using these photos to assist in understanding what is happening here on earth, I guess they would start with what they already know from our little planet.

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15130
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Meet the Fokkers

Post by neufer » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:31 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Byrd#1926_North_Pole_flight wrote: <<Rear Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd Jr., USN (October 25, 1888 – March 11, 1957) was an American naval officer and explorer. On May 9, 1926, Byrd and Navy Chief Aviation Pilot Floyd Bennett attempted a flight over the North Pole in a Fokker F.VIIa/3m Tri-motor monoplane named Josephine Ford, after the daughter of Ford Motor Company president Edsel Ford, who helped finance the expedition. The flight went from Spitsbergen and back to its take-off airfield, lasting fifteen hours and fifty-seven minutes (including 13 minutes of circling the pole). Byrd and Bennett claimed to have reached the pole, a distance of 1,535 miles.

When he returned to the United States from the Arctic, Byrd became a national hero. Congress passed a special act on December 21, 1926, promoting him to the rank of commander and awarding both him and Floyd Bennett the Medal of Honor. Bennett was promoted to the warrant officer rank of Machinist. Byrd and Bennett were presented with Tiffany Cross versions of the Medal of Honor on March 5, 1927, at the White House by President Calvin Coolidge. The widespread acclaim from the flight enabled Byrd to secure funding for the subsequent attempt to fly over the South Pole.

Since 1926, there have been doubts raised, defenses made, and heated controversy over whether or not Byrd actually reached the North Pole. In 1958, Norwegian-American aviator and explorer Bernt Balchen cast doubt on Byrd's claim on the basis of his knowledge of the airplane's speed. Balchen claimed that Bennett had confessed to him months after the flight that he and Byrd had not reached the pole.

The 1996 release of Byrd's diary of the May 9, 1926, flight revealed erased (but still legible) sextant sights that sharply differ with Byrd's later June 22 typewritten official report to the National Geographic Society. Byrd took a sextant reading of the Sun at 7:07:10 GCT. His erased diary record shows the apparent (observed) solar altitude to have been 19°25'30", while his later official typescript reports the same 7:07:10 apparent solar altitude to have been 18°18'18". On the basis of this and other data in the diary, Dennis Rawlins concluded that Byrd steered accurately, and flew about eighty percent of the distance to the Pole before turning back because of an engine oil leak, but later falsified his official report to support his claim of reaching the pole.

Accepting that the conflicting data in the typed report's flight times indeed require both northward and southward ground speeds greater than the flight's eighty-five mph airspeed, a Byrd defender posits a westerly-moving anti-cyclone that tailwind-boosted Byrd's ground speed on both outward and inward legs, allowing the distance claimed to be covered in the time claimed (the theory is based on rejecting handwritten sextant data in favor of typewritten alleged dead-reckoning data). This suggestion has been challenged by Dennis Rawlins who adds that the sextant data in the long unavailable original official typewritten report are all expressed to 1", a precision not possible on Navy sextants of 1926 and not the precision of the sextant data in Byrd's diary for 1925 or the 1926 flight, which was normal (half or quarter of a minute of arc).[

If Byrd and Bennett did not reach the North Pole, then the first flight over the Pole occurred a few days later, on May 12, 1926, with the flight of the airship Norge that flew from Spitsbergen to Alaska nonstop with its crew of Roald Amundsen, Umberto Nobile, Oscar Wisting, and others. Amundsen and Wisting had both been members of the first expedition to reach the South Pole in December 1911.>>
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15130
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by neufer » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:46 pm

NCTom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:10 am

May be wrong here, but having lived in the Atlantic's hurricane alley on the US eastern coast, my experience is the strength of the hurricane was often seen in the height of its cloud tops where they would be the coldest. The heat generating the power of the hurricane came from its proximity to the warm ocean waters on the bottom, the warmer the water the faster and stronger the storm would grow. With NASA using these photos to assist in understanding what is happening here on earth, I guess they would start with what they already know from our little planet.
Mixed convective atmospheres such as cloud filled tropospheres
must of necessity be warmer at the bottom than at the top.

Ascending air loses energy both to gravity as well as to the drop in air pressure.

Descending air gains energy both from gravity as well as from an the increase in air pressure.
Art Neuendorffer

Just me

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by Just me » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:21 pm

Quick question, if these storms are analogues to hurricanes here on earth, wouldn't there be a great opportunity to peer down the eye and see layers of atmosphere deep below the surface?

ems57fcva
Ensign
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:13 am
Location: Falls Church, VA

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by ems57fcva » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:55 pm

I am a bit annoyed with the caption. It indicates that the hottest features glow the brightest. So the hottest "features" are apparently the gaps between the storms. But then were did the cloud heights come from? Is that being inferred from the temperatures? Or has it been directly measured? (This is not like where Jupiter is lit, and shadows of higher clouds on lower one have been observed.)

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15130
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Flyover of Jupiter's North Pole in... (2018 Apr 16)

Post by neufer » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:40 pm

ems57fcva wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:55 pm

I am a bit annoyed with the caption. It indicates that the hottest features glow the brightest. So the hottest "features" are apparently the gaps between the storms. But then were did the cloud heights come from? Is that being inferred from the temperatures?
  • Yes.
Art Neuendorffer