Comments and questions about the
APOD on the main view screen.
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Ann
- 4725 Å
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Post
by Ann » Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:17 am
One wonders what ships have been plying the seas of Europa?
Ann
Color Commentator
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Ironwood
Post
by Ironwood » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:56 am
What a great idea! I just remote started my SUV to assist in combatting global warming. I'll let it warm up then go drive around making cooling clouds.
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Starlightasru
Post
by Starlightasru » Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:30 am
Perhaps modify the ship's systems to create the clouds.
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rstevenson
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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- Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Post
by rstevenson » Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:36 am
Would the reflectivity of the clouds fully offset the CO2 released by the ships' diesel engines? Is this just another example of perpetual motion-like wishful thinking?
Rob
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Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 17629
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Post
by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:11 pm
Starlightasru wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:30 am
Perhaps modify the ship's systems to create the clouds.
The clouds produced by a ship don't significantly offset the CO
2 produced by the ship. The proposed geoengineering solutions produce the clouds but don't add to atmospheric CO
2. Also, the aerosols produced by the ships that seed the clouds are harmful in their own right, unlike the geoengineering approach that simply uses salt.
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Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
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- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Post
by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:13 pm
rstevenson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:36 am
Would the reflectivity of the clouds fully offset the CO2 released by the ships' diesel engines? Is this just another example of perpetual motion-like wishful thinking?
The geoengineering proposal, of course, doesn't use technology that releases CO
2 or dangerous aerosols.
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heehaw
Post
by heehaw » Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:02 pm
ESPOD is very good today.
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orin stepanek
- Plutopian
- Posts: 8130
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
- Location: Nebraska
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by orin stepanek » Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:08 pm
ShipTracks_Terra_960.jpg
Maybe someday; man will be able to control the weather!? Maybe;
remember I said maybe; or maybe the weather will wipe us out first!
I wish it were 1950 again, when I was a boy and not wonder what the
future will bring! Que sierra sierra !

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Orin
Smile today; tomorrow's another day!
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guest again
Post
by guest again » Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:20 pm
Ann wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:17 am
One wonders what ships have been plying the seas of Europa?
Ann
Ice breakers?
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Sa Ji Tario
Post
by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:14 pm
When the tragedy of the US Twin Towers suspended flights for three days, a temperature difference of three degrees was found caused by the lack of aerosols left by high-altitude aircraft that returned much of the solar infrared rays to space.
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Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
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Post
by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:22 pm
Sa Ji Tario wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:14 pm
When the tragedy of the US Twin Towers suspended flights for three days, a temperature difference of three degrees was found caused by the lack of aerosols left by high-altitude aircraft that returned much of the solar infrared rays to space.
Not globally, though. This was a regional effect.
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Sa Ji Tario
Post
by Sa Ji Tario » Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:18 am
Right Chris, I forgot to mention it.
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florid_snow
- Ensign
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- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:54 am
Post
by florid_snow » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:03 pm
A key phrase here is "aerosol susceptibility" because broadly speaking, there is a large contrast from land to ocean for the amount of particulate matter floating in the air - aka the aerosol concentration is much higher over land than over the ocean. So running your SUV does not cause this effect over land, it is only over the ocean where the atmosphere is typically susceptible to aerosol injection for cloud brightening. And this only really works a few days per month in different small sections of the ocean where there is the particular thermodynamic situation where a cloud might condense but does not due to a relative lack of particles.
This continues to be an active area of research, I wish this APOD had linked to a few more relevant articles, like this recent article in Science which basically claims the total susceptibility of the atmosphere is too small for this to really be a viable method to counter-act CO2 climate change.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd3980
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Astronymus
- Science Officer
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- AKA: Astro
- Location: Northern Alps
Post
by Astronymus » Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:18 pm
So this is how the microplastic ends up on Mount Everest and Antarctica.
»Only a dead Earth is a good Earth.«
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Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 17629
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Post
by Chris Peterson » Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:50 pm
florid_snow wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:03 pm
A key phrase here is "aerosol susceptibility" because broadly speaking, there is a large contrast from land to ocean for the amount of particulate matter floating in the air - aka the aerosol concentration is much higher over land than over the ocean. So running your SUV does not cause this effect over land, it is only over the ocean where the atmosphere is typically susceptible to aerosol injection for cloud brightening. And this only really works a few days per month in different small sections of the ocean where there is the particular thermodynamic situation where a cloud might condense but does not due to a relative lack of particles.
This continues to be an active area of research, I wish this APOD had linked to a few more relevant articles, like this recent article in Science which basically claims the total susceptibility of the atmosphere is too small for this to really be a viable method to counter-act CO2 climate change.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd3980
That's not what I read in that paper. It appears to say only that ship track data are a poor model for understanding the cloud response of anthropogenic aerosols. Not that clouds produced by aerosols don't have the potential to create a degree of cooling (which is not the same as counteracting climate change).