When Particles Collide (APOD 25 Feb 2008)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
starnut
Science Officer
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:55 am

Post by starnut » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:57 am

emc wrote: I very much like the way you wrote about star travel so matter-of-factly... very encouraging! ...Where's my galaxy cruiser "after-light" switch??? :wink: ...maybe it should be called "after-gravity" switch! :D ...what a load that would be off my mind! :wink:
Sorry! Reality has a nasty habit of crashing dreams... :( But...let's just hope that we will find a way to control gravity, invent a FTL propulsion, and find an infinite source of energy to power both.
Fight ignorance!

kovil
Science Officer
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:58 pm

Post by kovil » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:36 pm

This article in The New Yorker about the LHC was very good, and graspable, it is seven pages, so don't miss a one!

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007 ... ct_kolbert

- - -

My question for the LHC is, are individual protonic energies of 7-14 Tev encountered in natural space-time? Are the individual proton energies in say the Crab Pulsar or Cygnus A's center, greater or much lesser than 7-14 Tev?

Not to confuse 'heat' with 'temperature', the LHC may be hotter than nature, but it will never have more heat.

What are the estimated eV energies in the;

Sun Solar Corona

Sun Solar core

Crab Pulsar

Cygnus A

- - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlS01L5 ... re=related

and lots more; one has a time lapse of daily webcam photos of the 3 year construction of the LHC, like ants building a nest.

User avatar
Qev
Ontological Cartographer
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:20 pm

Post by Qev » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:09 pm

TeV cosmic ray events are apparently pretty common, since they've used them to run observations of the Sun's magnetic field, among other things.
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!

GOD
Ensign
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:51 pm

LHC results

Post by GOD » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:15 pm

bystander wrote:It will be interesting to see what new answers the LHC will provide. Evidence of WIMPs, Higgs bosons, supersymmetry, gravitons????? Even more interesting, what new questions will be asked?
They are going to discover that quarks don't exist; that what they thought was a single "quark" is really a soup of many, many newly discovered smaller particles. This will lead the scientists to understand that "dark matter" is really "very, very tiny matter".

The most important new questions will be related to their discovery of the nature of different realities of vibrational frequencies. Scientists will prove that the vibrational reality in which humans reside, emanates from a higher vibrational reality. I understand many of you do not understand this yet.

Dr. Skeptic
Commander
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:20 pm

Post by Dr. Skeptic » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:33 pm

starnut wrote:
emc wrote: I very much like the way you wrote about star travel so matter-of-factly... very encouraging! ...Where's my galaxy cruiser "after-light" switch??? :wink: ...maybe it should be called "after-gravity" switch! :D ...what a load that would be off my mind! :wink:
Sorry! Reality has a nasty habit of crashing dreams... :( But...let's just hope that we will find a way to control gravity, invent a FTL propulsion, and find an infinite source of energy to power both.

Gravity wouldn't be an issue if you warped the Space/Time instead. :wink:
Speculation ≠ Science

Dr. Skeptic
Commander
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:20 pm

Post by Dr. Skeptic » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:44 pm

The most important new questions will be related to their discovery of the nature of different realities of vibrational frequencies. Scientists will prove that the vibrational reality in which humans reside, emanates from a higher vibrational reality. I understand many of you do not understand this yet.
http://www.vibrationalrelativity.org/overview.htm

?
Speculation ≠ Science

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21581
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: LHC results

Post by bystander » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:38 pm

the pretender wrote:They are going to discover that quarks don't exist; that what they thought was a single "quark" is really a soup of many, many newly discovered smaller particles. This will lead the scientists to understand that "dark matter" is really "very, very tiny matter". ...
I guess molecules don't exist because they are just a combination of atoms. Oh, wait! Atoms don't exist because they are made of protons, neutrons and electrons. But those particles don't exist either. As a matter of fact, the universe doesn't exist at all and you aren't reading this.

Hans Kanitschar
Asternaut
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Hans Kanitschar » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:14 pm

Dear friends, I am new here and have a question to the great picture of today (sept, 9th). It shows the dwarf galaxy M31, but which is the great galaxy left? Is ist Milky Way or is it Andromeda?? The text doesnot tell explicitly. Thanks for answering, Hans

Hans Kanitschar
Asternaut
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Hans Kanitschar » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:19 pm

Sorry my mistake while asking my question. Here is the correct question:

Todays picture shows NGC 205. But which is the huge galaxy above - M31(Andromeda) or Milky way?

Thanks, Hans

jesusfreak16
Ensign
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:32 pm
Location: Oklahoma,USA

Post by jesusfreak16 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:55 pm

It would probably be Andromeda.
(but I'm not sure)
T.T.F.N. (Ta Ta For Now!)

User avatar
BMAONE23
Commentator Model 1.23
Posts: 4076
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: California

Post by BMAONE23 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:16 pm

It sits with Andromeda
Oriented just below it in these APOD's http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080124.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070721.html
and below left in this spectacular comparative image
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061228.html

User avatar
emc
Equine Locutionist
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm
AKA: Bear
Location: Ed’s World
Contact:

Post by emc » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:18 pm

Ed
Casting Art to the Net
Sometimes the best path is a new one.

Hans Kanitschar
Asternaut
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Hans Kanitschar » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:10 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:It sits with Andromeda
Oriented just below it in these APOD's http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080124.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070721.html
and below left in this spectacular comparative image
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061228.html
BMAONE23, THANKS a lot for these phantastic links! Now it is clear: the huge galaxy in todays foto must be Andromeda. Really great!
Hans

Hans Kanitschar
Asternaut
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Hans Kanitschar » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:12 pm

jesusfreak16 wrote:It would probably be Andromeda.
(but I'm not sure)
Thanks jesusfreak16. It must be Andromeda. See the beautiful links BMAONE23 sent me in his/her answer. Hans

User avatar
emc
Equine Locutionist
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm
AKA: Bear
Location: Ed’s World
Contact:

Post by emc » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:41 pm

Image

More news on CERN's LHC power up tomorrow...

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jaO ... iNCVi6Rsmw
Ed
Casting Art to the Net
Sometimes the best path is a new one.

User avatar
emc
Equine Locutionist
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm
AKA: Bear
Location: Ed’s World
Contact:

Post by emc » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:10 am

<<"The world breathed a sigh of relief as our predicted demise - at 5pm - came and went with not even a whimper, let alone a bang.">>
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 63,00.html

Image
-------------------------------------------
<<"The Large Hadron Collider fired its first beam around the machine's full track at 10:28 AM local time (1:36 AM Pacific time).

No actual atoms were smashed today -- that won't start for weeks -- and no results are expected for months, at the earliest. Still, like first light in a telescope, the first beam in the particle accelerator is a landmark moment for a program that has spanned more than 20 years and involved tens of thousands of scientists.">>

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008 ... -circ.html

Image
Ed
Casting Art to the Net
Sometimes the best path is a new one.

User avatar
emc
Equine Locutionist
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm
AKA: Bear
Location: Ed’s World
Contact:

Post by emc » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:08 pm

The race is on...

Image

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/show ... =210601016

<<"Both Fermi and CERN are looking for the Higgs bosun using similar methods of accelerating particle beams to near the speed of light, then colliding them with a force almost as powerful as the Big Bang. Whereas CERN will use high-intensity proton beams, Fermilab's DZero project is using one beam of protons and one beam of anti-protons.">>
Ed
Casting Art to the Net
Sometimes the best path is a new one.

User avatar
iamlucky13
Commander
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:28 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by iamlucky13 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:30 pm

emc wrote:"The world breathed a sigh of relief as our predicted demise - at 5pm - came and went with not even a whimper, let alone a bang."
Geeze...for something as important as this you can't trust the media. Go to an authoratative source:

http://qntm.org/?board

Or better yet, recognize it with your own eyes:

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

Billions of people around the world are still in denial because of the mainstream media, saying things like "but they haven't even started colliding particles yet." Oh yeah smarty-pants? Then how come the IEDAB is reporting the world has been destroyed?
"Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man." ~J. Robert Oppenheimer (speaking about Albert Einstein)

User avatar
emc
Equine Locutionist
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm
AKA: Bear
Location: Ed’s World
Contact:

Post by emc » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
emc wrote:"The world breathed a sigh of relief as our predicted demise - at 5pm - came and went with not even a whimper, let alone a bang."
Geeze...for something as important as this you can't trust the media. Go to an authoratative source:

http://qntm.org/?board

Or better yet, recognize it with your own eyes:

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

Billions of people around the world are still in denial because of the mainstream media, saying things like "but they haven't even started colliding particles yet." Oh yeah smarty-pants? Then how come the IEDAB is reporting the world has been destroyed?
So according to the IEDAB we are all dead... interesting... I had much higher hopes for after-life... I'm still at work. :(

But you know... you can't really trust things with ED in the name... never know whats to be expectED from EDs.

BTW - The quote you list is not mine... sorry I thought that the <<"___">> was an indication of quoting another resource. The quoted sentence actually comes from the link I list below the text. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 63,00.html Don't want to be getting crEDit for stuff I didn't say.

THANKS for the funnies! 8)
Ed
Casting Art to the Net
Sometimes the best path is a new one.

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21581
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

The God Particle (higgs boson)

Post by bystander » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:06 pm

The God Particle (higgs boson)

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/ ... nteractive

How can you create a particle with 100 to 200 times the mass of a proton by smashing two protons together?

User avatar
iamlucky13
Commander
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:28 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: The God Particle (higgs boson)

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:33 pm

Sorry about the misquote EMC. Interestingly, the IEDAB didn't actually say we're all dead. It just said the earth had been destroyed. Draw you own conclusions. :lol:
bystander wrote:The God Particle (higgs boson)

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/ ... nteractive

How can you create a particle with 100 to 200 times the mass of a proton by smashing two protons together?
Mass-energy equivalence and the fact that matter can "condense" out of high energy environments. The collisions occur at 14 TeV. This is equivalent to about 15000 times the mass of a proton.

The more puzzling question is how can a particle that gives mass to a proton have 100 to 200 times as much mass as the particle? I've heard this explained in a reasonable manner before, but I've forgotten the answer.
"Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man." ~J. Robert Oppenheimer (speaking about Albert Einstein)

User avatar
emc
Equine Locutionist
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm
AKA: Bear
Location: Ed’s World
Contact:

Re: The God Particle (higgs boson)

Post by emc » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:49 am

iamlucky13 wrote:Sorry about the misquote EMC. Interestingly, the IEDAB didn't actually say we're all dead. It just said the earth had been destroyed. Draw you own conclusions. :lol:
No prob

Thanks for clarifying IEDAB's position. Sounds a little bit political though. :wink:

I'm holding with being dead if the earth is destroyed. And still a little disappointed with my outcome.
Ed
Casting Art to the Net
Sometimes the best path is a new one.

soupphysics
Ensign
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:27 am

Post by soupphysics » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:59 pm

starnut wrote:One thing I hope that discoveries from the LHC and other future particle colliders will lead is better understanding how the gravitational force is created. Until we learn if this fundamental force can be controlled by some artificial means, long-term space travel will remain very difficult to attain. We need to find a way to neutralize the gravitational force around a spacecraft on a planet or moon so it can lift off the surface without so much energy and to create artificial gravity inside the spacecraft for people on long space travels. Otherwise, long space voyages will remain just a pipe dream.
Actually gravity is not what is preventing long term space travel. It's not a huge problem to go into space.

It's the unimaginable huge distances that prevent it the long trips and the energy needed to accelerate to close to light speed, and even at that speed, it is some very long trips.

Artificial gravity on a space ship is not a problem either. It can be created by rotation (centripetal force).

soupphysics
Ensign
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:27 am

Re: LHC results

Post by soupphysics » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:06 pm

GOD wrote:
bystander wrote:It will be interesting to see what new answers the LHC will provide. Evidence of WIMPs, Higgs bosons, supersymmetry, gravitons????? Even more interesting, what new questions will be asked?
They are going to discover that quarks don't exist; that what they thought was a single "quark" is really a soup of many, many newly discovered smaller particles. This will lead the scientists to understand that "dark matter" is really "very, very tiny matter".

The most important new questions will be related to their discovery of the nature of different realities of vibrational frequencies. Scientists will prove that the vibrational reality in which humans reside, emanates from a higher vibrational reality. I understand many of you do not understand this yet.
That doesn't really change the existence of quarks. It just changes the definition of a quark or actually just explains what a quark exactly is.

starnut
Science Officer
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:55 am

Post by starnut » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:43 am

soupphysics wrote:
Actually gravity is not what is preventing long term space travel. It's not a huge problem to go into space.

It's the unimaginable huge distances that prevent it the long trips and the energy needed to accelerate to close to light speed, and even at that speed, it is some very long trips.

Artificial gravity on a space ship is not a problem either. It can be created by rotation (centripetal force).
Remember what happened to the space shuttles Challenger and Columbia? Using chemical rockets to leave the Earth and atmospheric braking to return is too dangerous and inefficient. It also takes far too long to get the shuttle ready for the next flight. Better to be able to control gravity to take off and land gently. We can also use gravity control for air travels.

Accelerating to near light speed is not the only problem. Decelerating when reaching your destination is another problem that also requires a lot of energy. Then there is the time dilation problem.

Rotating a spaceship to create artificial gravity also creates all kinds of engineering problems, such as maintaining balance when internal loads shift from one side to another and stopping and restarting the rotation in order to do exterior maintenance during spacewalks. Then you need a non-rotating section for navigation, ingress and egress purposes.

Gary
Fight ignorance!

Post Reply