Why is polar cloud mysterious? (APOD 03 Apr 2007)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
TonyB
Asternaut
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:26 am

Why is polar cloud mysterious? (APOD 03 Apr 2007)

Post by TonyB » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:31 am

What is mysterious about the hexagonal-like cloud flow lines? Isn't it simply a sinusoidal wave along the flow caused by shear.

l3p3r
Science Officer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Post by l3p3r » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:06 am

hexagons. sinusoidal waves. I don't see the connection! :S can you elaborate?

Ben Tamari
Asternaut
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:48 am

A Mysterious Hexagonal Cloud System on Saturn

Post by Ben Tamari » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:58 am

The picture of today - Cloud on Saturn - reminds me KAM (Kolmogorov-Arnold-Moser) torus, As a Mathematical Model for explaination. See http://www.ecometry.biz , Ben Tamari .

makc
Commodore
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:25 pm

Post by makc » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:36 pm

and we have just moved that thread :)

User avatar
iamlucky13
Commander
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:28 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by iamlucky13 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:00 pm

There have been experiments with liquids in rotating containers that create standing geometric waves at various rotational speeds. Essentially, the rate of rotation matches the rate of sloshing of the liquid. Things like this are always considered mysterious until they have a working model of how it works. A similar effect is no doubt at play, but this case is a lot different than those experiments because:

1.) The hexagon is on the order of a million times bigger

2.) It formed in a gas instead of a liquid

3.) There is no hard boundary structure on Saturn, like a plastic bucket in the experiments.

4.) The match between the rotational speed and the speed of wave propogation appears coincidental rather than controlled (although perhaps this is a quasi-stable effect possible at specific radius given a set density and rotational speed).

5.) It can't be studied under in an easily controlled laboratory environment.

Incidentally, I did some further reading and found that geometric shapes are occasionally observed in the eye of a hurricane, which is normally circular or elliptical in shape. However, while hurricanes last for a week or so and form in the tropics on earth, this structure on Saturn was discovered over 20 years ago and is at the pole.
"Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man." ~J. Robert Oppenheimer (speaking about Albert Einstein)

infinix
Asternaut
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:08 am

Idea

Post by infinix » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:10 am

I think it is the head of a giant hexagonal bolt. :D

User avatar
BMAONE23
Commentator Model 1.23
Posts: 4076
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: California

Post by BMAONE23 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:57 pm

Would that make the vortex at the other end, the opening in the center of the nut? :lol:

Andy Wade
Science Officer
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:55 am
Location: Oakworth, Yorkshire, England

Post by Andy Wade » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:03 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:Would that make the vortex at the other end, the opening in the center of the nut? :lol:
Here we go.
The ring system is actually a giant washer to go with the nut and bolt then... :lol:
Regards,
Andy.

rigelan
Science Officer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:54 am
Location: Indianola, IA

Post by rigelan » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:46 pm

I wonder what would happen if we found a giant wrench and twisted it off . . . What would be inside?

Andy Wade
Science Officer
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:55 am
Location: Oakworth, Yorkshire, England

Post by Andy Wade » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:43 am

rigelan wrote:I wonder what would happen if we found a giant wrench and twisted it off . . . What would be inside?
Easy, a load more 'moon sized' smaller Easter eggs :lol:
I reckon Io is probably orange flavoured.
This is waaaayyy off topic!
I'll get my coat... :)
Regards,
Andy.

adrianxw
Ensign
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:42 pm
Location: Denmark

Post by adrianxw » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:59 am

The new Saturn from IKEA.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.