APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby APOD Robot » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:06 am

Image Views from Cassini at Saturn

Explanation: What has the Cassini orbiter seen since arriving at Saturn? The above music video shows some of the highlights. In the first time-lapse sequence (00:07), a vertical line appears that is really Saturn's thin rings seen nearly edge-on. Soon some of Saturn's moon shoot past. The next sequence (00:11) features Saturn's unusually wavy F-ring that is constrained by the two shepherd moons that are also continually perturbing it. Soon much of Saturn's extensive ring system flashes by, sometimes juxtaposed to the grandeur of the immense planet itself. Cloud patterns on Titan (00:39) and Saturn (00:41) are highlighted. Clips from flyby's of several of Saturn's moon are then shown, including Phoebe, Mimas, Epimetheus, and Iapetus. In other sequences, moons of Saturn appear to pass each other as they orbit Saturn. Background star fields seen by Cassini are sometimes intruded upon by bright passing moons. The robotic Cassini spacecraft has been revolutionizing humanity's knowledge of Saturn and its moons since 2004.

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Brumle

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Brumle » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:53 am

NASA pictures with dust rings, now that I'd has not seen before, neither expected. There's an Lunar eclipse on wednesday, and we're going to set up an webcast ( http://www.astro.viten.no/ ). Expect some dust rings here too, cause I'd cannot subtract flat-field nor darkframe as the pictures are taken automatically and pushed onto the net, one per minute.

j01ner

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby j01ner » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:18 am

I would rather you just show us what Saturn looks like instead of "creating a film." None of us have ever seen what Saturn REALLY looks like so we are not ready yet to see an artistic film like this. I just want to see Saturn, not your impression of Saturn!

OuterReach

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby OuterReach » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:00 am

This video is more to do with the editors whims than Cassini-Huygens. It simply doesn't do the epic 7-year mission justice. Further, it reduces a major scientific achievement to a cheap, flashy pop vod. Try again.

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby nstahl » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:28 am

It's a different way to experience bits of the mission. I enjoyed it. And remember, there's a lot of art and subjective choices in those dramatic pictures of galaxies and nebulae and planets we come here to enjoy. So I'm good with something like this occasionally.

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby mhasgari » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:32 am

I have a question!
Is there a particular reason that these images (and some of other pictures) are in black and white? I mean why aren't they colored?
Thanks!

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby inertnet » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:37 am

To each his own, but I don't think this qualifies as APOD material.

JPTHUNK

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby JPTHUNK » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:08 pm

I really liked it. It reminded me of Fritz Lang's 1927 film, "Metropolis". It had a feel of otherworldly spaciness (which of course it is - literally), but it had a frantic dramatic element to it that, coupled with the Nine Inch Nails track, made it have a science fiction feel to it instead of a science fact feel, which images from Cassini normally does and has done exceptionally well for the past seven years. Well done.

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Star*Hopper » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:47 pm

Though I greatly admire the images we've been receiving from Cassini these several years (have a series of 3 I regularly rotate as my desktop, in fact), I didn't particularly care for this presentation. Basic complaint - too 'jerky'. I think it'd come off much better with some transitional 'smoothing'. Inate in the clip, as well as what I suppose are bandwidth demands from 80-million APOD'rs trying to access it at the same time *LOL*, just didn't give the usual gliding flight impression one might expect....& distractingly so.

Meanwhile, just as we've recently lauded the Spirit & Opportunity project overachievments, I personally think the Huygens/Cassini mission has likewise been a shining and inspirational example of human engineering. Long may it live!
"Perhaps I'll never touch a star, but at least let me reach." ~J Faircloth

rayo

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby rayo » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:59 pm

The video was too jerky,
kids might like the short attention span collage of flashing images but for people over 50 it's annoying.

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby orin stepanek » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:11 pm

It was OK; I just wish it flowed smoother. Maybe if was slowed down somewhat! :|
Orin

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Chris Peterson » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:40 pm

Brumle wrote:NASA pictures with dust rings, now that I'd has not seen before, neither expected. There's an Lunar eclipse on wednesday, and we're going to set up an webcast ( http://www.astro.viten.no/ ). Expect some dust rings here too, cause I'd cannot subtract flat-field nor darkframe as the pictures are taken automatically and pushed onto the net, one per minute.

The raw images from all spacecraft cameras are loaded with dust shadows. Hubble raws are amazingly awful! I think there's just no practical way to keep particles out of an imaging system, no matter how much care is taken. I assume particles are produced over time, even if things were clean at the start.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Chris Peterson » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:47 pm

mhasgari wrote:I have a question!
Is there a particular reason that these images (and some of other pictures) are in black and white? I mean why aren't they colored?

There is really no such thing as a color sensor able to acquire scientific quality data in a single shot. High quality color images are always produced from multiple images made through different filters. That's easy when your target doesn't change between exposures, but when you're a fast probe, orbiting or passing by rotating bodies, things get tricky. So the images we see are from B&W sensors, collected through some particular filter designed to give the researcher specific information. In a few cases, where there is minimal movement between exposures, images are stacked to produce color or pseudocolor results, but these represent only a tiny fraction of the total images obtained during the mission.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby NoelC » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:50 pm

First thing I noticed was the dust all over the lenses. Is there no provision for a little robotic windshield wiper on these cameras? Maybe a little robotic arm with a polishing cloth? :D

Chris' implication, above, is that there's no room on such a mission for high quality "public outreach" camera gear. Presumably it's too expensive, or data bandwidth is too precious or something...

I've often wondered about this. Certainly we've seen that with appropriate filter rotation color images can be constructed, but the scientists have to plan for that (or try to make do with a few science observations). Since one of the functions of a probe spacecraft is to keep the public engaged in space research, why not fund an array of full-time visual color imaging cameras, so that at any time Joe Public could go online and look at what Cassini is "seeing". Continuous videos could be created of all the moves the probe makes? I'm not sure stereo cameras would be helpful at the vast astronomical distances, but certainly cameras looking in various directions would be interesting to have.

Perhaps NASA should have asked the film industry to help fund such cameras, and maybe even help design the setup.

-Noel

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Chris Peterson » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:15 pm

NoelC wrote:Chris' implication, above, is that there's no room on such a mission for high quality "public outreach" camera gear. Presumably it's too expensive, or data bandwidth is too precious or something...

There are single-shot color cameras planned for some missions, and currently used on some. Although nowhere near as versatile as cameras with selectable filters, they do offer the scientific advantage of simultaneous imaging in several bands (which would otherwise require multiple sensors and complex optics) as well as "public outreach". But in general, the situation is as you surmise: every gram of mass and every watt of power is expensive and critically allocated. So if you already have a high quality imaging system (with filters), the question becomes one of whether the value of a color camera, with its typically lower scientific value and largely redundant data is greater than the value of some other unique instrument providing totally different kinds of data. In most cases, it seems the answer is no.
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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Starswarm Magellan » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:40 pm

Has the jittery feel of "Gumbasia" sans cool bongos. The music track would be better suited for wide field viewing with slower subject changes. For this film I suggest portions of that Pink Floyd merry air "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Grooving With A Pict". More caffeine.....

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby LoneStarG84 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:26 pm

This video is AMAZING. That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. It makes Saturn, and the rest of the cosmos, somehow feel more...real. Now we can take those same artsy-fartsy editing techniques (which I think are pretty cool) that we use on Earth and apply them to other worlds. This really felt like an independent filmmaker was right there orbiting Saturn and decided to make an art film out of it.

Buddy

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Buddy » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:52 am

This is the first time I've felt compelled to comment on APOD. I thought it was really amazing to see raw unfiltered images as Cassini takes them, switching of filters during a pan, dust, streaks, glare, etc. It had an avant gard look and feel with the juxtaposition of rapid cuts with slow tempo instrumental music. Brilliant.

Dave

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Dave » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:39 pm

Huh. Didn't really care for this. Maybe if I'd been drinking or stoned or something. It was artistic and all, but kept jumping all over the place, and I never got a chance to just sit and ponder the image or video. I kept thinking, "wait! what was that? I want to see that moon/ring/atmospheric feature thing for more than 0.5 seconds! Damn! I think I'm about to have an epileptic seizure from the flashing and bouncing!"

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby mhasgari » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:58 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
mhasgari wrote:I have a question!
Is there a particular reason that these images (and some of other pictures) are in black and white? I mean why aren't they colored?

There is really no such thing as a color sensor able to acquire scientific quality data in a single shot. High quality color images are always produced from multiple images made through different filters. That's easy when your target doesn't change between exposures, but when you're a fast probe, orbiting or passing by rotating bodies, things get tricky. So the images we see are from B&W sensors, collected through some particular filter designed to give the researcher specific information. In a few cases, where there is minimal movement between exposures, images are stacked to produce color or pseudocolor results, but these represent only a tiny fraction of the total images obtained during the mission.

Thanks for your interesting answer.

d-76

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby d-76 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:07 pm

This was refreshingly different.

Sure, it's a bunch of images and a somewhat obscure industrial-techno soundtrack spliced together to form a hip video. Sure, there's a vast amount of collected data missing from this presentation. Sure, from a purely scientific standpoint it's devoid of value.

I loved it. After watching it a few dozen times, it compelled me to search for more information about the Cassini Mission (one which, unfortunately, just isn't prominently fixed at the forefront of the world's collective consciousness) and the Project's findings.

More to the point, it prompted my daughter, who was walking past, to backstep and ask "What is THAT?" So now she's found time to separate herself from the Hollywood gossip and whatever the current boy-band thing is in lieu of actually learning a thing or two about our Solar system.

I don't know about you, but I'd consider that a "mission accomplished."

D.

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Sam » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:53 pm

The more I watch it the more I really like it!
It reminds me of early silent films: grainy and scratchy, and the time is sped up.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLBn9KK2Ss0&NR=1[/youtube]
Includes Richard Einhorn's Voices of Light, a choral and orchestral work that he was inspired to write by viewing the film.

"A rustic woman, very sincere, who was also a woman who had suffered," is how director Carl Theodor Dreyer described Joan of Arc. In his silent, black and white masterpiece of 1927, "La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc", Dreyer captured all three facets of her personality, drawing on a monumental performance from Renée Maria Falconetti as the French military leader turned martyred saint. A stark and intense film, "Jeanne d'Arc" is renowned for its sparse shooting style - which focuses in on Falconetti's face with such relentless fascination that everything else (sets, props, secondary characters) disappear from view.
By showing so little interest in extraneous details, Dreyer produces a haunting vision of one woman's suffering, charting her wide-eyed terror as she is confronted by a jury of French ecclesiastics who want simply to burn her to death.

Director: Carl Theodor Dreyer
Writer: Carl Theodor Dreyer, Joseph Delteil
Cast: Renee Maria Falconetti, Eugene Silvain, Andre Berley, Maurice Schutz, Louis Ravet

---
Sam
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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby owlice » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:12 pm

OMG, Sam, it's rare for me to run across someone who knows the Einhorn! I performed it with the National Symphony (obviously not by myself -- heading off neufer there :ssmile:) years ago; I didn't know the work until then. I love it; it's ... oh, just an amazing amazing piece. Rapturous. Ecstatic.

Wow, now I want to dig out the score and CD and sing along.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.

Scotch7

Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby Scotch7 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:55 am

rayo wrote:The video was too jerky, kids might like the short attention span collage of flashing images but for people over 50 it's annoying.

Agreed. No "Red Bull" next time, perhaps none for 90 days.

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Re: APOD: Views from Cassini at Saturn (2011 Jun 13)

Postby StarCuriousAero » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:20 pm

Loved this APOD, especially the Nine Inch Nails, Trent Reznor's raw sound goes well with the raw Cassini footage, I do wish there was a "slow motion" button on vimeo though, I guess I can just pause the video a lot to absorb the images. Was still very cool seeing it sped up though, much in the way that sped up cloud movements are super mesmerizing. I'll watch this video many more times. 8-)


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