APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec 18)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec 18)

Post by APOD Robot » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:06 am

Image Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron Collider

Explanation: Why do objects have mass? To help find out, Europe's CERN has built the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the most powerful particle accelerator yet created by humans. Since 2008, the LHC smashed protons into each other with unprecedented impact speeds. The LHC is exploring the leading explanation that mass arises from ordinary particles slogging through an otherwise invisible but pervasive field of virtual Higgs particles. Were high energy colliding particles to create real Higgs bosons, the Higgs mechanism for mass creation will be bolstered. Last week, two LHC groups reported on preliminary indications that the Higgs boson might exist around 120 GeV in mass. Data from the LHC collisions is also being scanned for micro black holes, magnetic monopoles, and explore the possibility that every type of fundamental particle we know about has a nearly invisible supersymmetric counterpart. You can help -- the LHC@Home project will allow anyone with a home computer to help LHC scientists search archived LHC data for these strange beasts. Pictured above, a person stands in front of the huge ATLAS detector, one of six detectors attached to the LHC.

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Beyond » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:35 am

Such a macro piece of equipment to deal with such a micro proton. 8-)
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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:49 am

Besides the obvious guy in front, there are at least five other people in the picture.
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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by bystander » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:04 am

Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
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larnold2

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by larnold2 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:38 am

This is the first repeat picture I've seen on APOD (see February 25, 2008 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080225.html).A little disappointing given the plethora of pictures which could have been used, such as this event of the week from December 13th 2011: http://uslhc.us/Teachers_and_Students .
Have there been other repeats in the past which I haven't caught?

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by nstahl » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:02 pm

Ok I acknowledge finding Higgs, and the details about Higgs, is a Very Big Deal. But dammit they also want to make black holes with that, and while they say they're sure those black holes will then quickly evaporate there's a really, really big downside if they are wrong. And some knowledgeable people are also concerned. It seems to me that is an experiment better done on the moon or Phobos or some place farther away.

gemstone205

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by gemstone205 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:30 pm

Interesting that the pic is actually flipped horizontally. APOD can't be blamed though, it's flipped at the source as well: http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/910381?ln=en
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mamrace

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by mamrace » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:08 pm

I found 5 people

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Case » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:14 pm

gemstone205 wrote:Interesting that the pic is actually flipped horizontally.
What makes you say that?
I could find just one word (Layher) in the picture, painted on a scaffold at the lower left, which is upside down, but not flipped horizontally.

Edit: There's another word, likely the same, on the far right, partially obscured, about 1/3 from the top, upright and not flipped.
And there's the number '6' on a beam just above that, again not flipped.

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by owlice » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:20 pm

I had counted seven people last night, but now can't find one of them.
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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by orin stepanek » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:21 pm

:shock: :? I must say; I'm at a loss for words as to the value of such a monster! I sure there is a logical purpose for it! :?
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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by geckzilla » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:20 pm

larnold2 wrote:This is the first repeat picture I've seen on APOD (see February 25, 2008 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080225.html).A little disappointing given the plethora of pictures which could have been used, such as this event of the week from December 13th 2011: http://uslhc.us/Teachers_and_Students .
Have there been other repeats in the past which I haven't caught?
The weekends are nearly always repeated descriptions and pictures. It's the editors' days off. Give a dog a bone now and then.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

amb

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by amb » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:22 pm

i think there are eight people in the image.

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by geckzilla » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:40 pm

Who'd I miss? Some of the figures are blurry and it's difficult to say if I'm really seeing a person there or imagining it. And no, the photographer (who is possibly a tripod) doesn't count since he / she is not actually in the photograph.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

Buzz

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Buzz » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:45 pm

Im no astronomy genius, but I very much enjoy this site. So, regarding magnetic monopoles...is this kind of what a black hole is on a grand scale?

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:46 pm

geckzilla wrote:Who'd I miss? Some of the figures are blurry and it's difficult to say if I'm really seeing a person there or imagining it. And no, the photographer (who is possibly a tripod) doesn't count since he / she is not actually in the photograph.
Look closer at #3.
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Buzz

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Buzz » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:48 pm

Yes, it appears that there are 4 people and 4 ninjas...

myke

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by myke » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:50 pm

I see 6 people, including the guy in front:

2 white helmets
1 blue helmet
1 red helmet
2 yellow helmets

Actually, 7 because the 'Higg's" boson is invisible....

wolfspirit72

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by wolfspirit72 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:50 pm

nstahl wrote:Ok I acknowledge finding Higgs, and the details about Higgs, is a Very Big Deal. But dammit they also want to make black holes with that, and while they say they're sure those black holes will then quickly evaporate there's a really, really big downside if they are wrong. And some knowledgeable people are also concerned. It seems to me that is an experiment better done on the moon or Phobos or some place farther away.
~
Neither place would be far enough away anyways. The moon consumed would also consume us. Mars location would also be bad as it would likely desturb the plantary gravational balance and likely pull us out of our current orbit. Resulting in total human destruction as well...

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:53 pm

nstahl wrote:Ok I acknowledge finding Higgs, and the details about Higgs, is a Very Big Deal. But dammit they also want to make black holes with that, and while they say they're sure those black holes will then quickly evaporate there's a really, really big downside if they are wrong.
There is no danger. None at all, and the "knowledgeable people" who are concerned are being foolish.

First of all, so what if they create black holes that don't evaporate? They are still just subatomic particles with incredibly tiny masses. They aren't going to absorb other mass, because their event horizons are so small they virtually never intersect with other matter. You need something like hundreds of times the age of the Universe for such tiny black holes to grow to macroscopic diameters.

Second, if the energies produced in the LHC are sufficient to produce microscopic black holes, then we must be surrounded by them- without apparent problem. Because the energies are nothing extraordinary. Cosmic rays of similar or higher energy occur all the time, and occasionally collisions must occur. We're still here, the Universe is still here, there's no evidence of things disappearing into spontaneously created black holes.
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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by geckzilla » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:01 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
geckzilla wrote:Who'd I miss? Some of the figures are blurry and it's difficult to say if I'm really seeing a person there or imagining it. And no, the photographer (who is possibly a tripod) doesn't count since he / she is not actually in the photograph.
Look closer at #3.
Eh? I have #6 already positioned behind him. I guess it's hard to see the 6. Or are you saying there's a 7th there? Pretty hard to make out.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:08 pm

geckzilla wrote:Eh? I have #6 already positioned behind him. I guess it's hard to see the 6. Or are you saying there's a 7th there? Pretty hard to make out.
Ah, I didn't see the "6" against the background.

You found the same six I did. If there are more, I don't see them... although I didn't spend all that long looking.
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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Killydd » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:24 pm

Look in the upper right hand corner, behind the orange striped duct and again right next to the number six. Also, on the left side, top blue level, just behind the second diagonal girder.

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Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by Beyond » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:28 pm

geckzilla wrote: Who'd I miss? Some of the figures are blurry and it's difficult to say if I'm really seeing a person there or imagining it. And no, the photographer (who is possibly a tripod) doesn't count since he / she is not actually in the photograph.
Upper left, 2-nd beam in, between the 2-blue railings. A white shirted arm, face and black vest.
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neptunium

Re: APOD: Hints of Higgs from the Large Hadron... (2011 Dec

Post by neptunium » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:44 pm

Is it just me, or is there a person's helmet way on the bottom left corner of the image?