APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 3451
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by APOD Robot » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:06 am

Image Austrian Analemma

Explanation: Today, the Sun crosses the celestial equator heading south at 14:49 Universal Time. An equinox (equal night), this astronomical event marks the first day of autumn in the northern hemisphere and spring in the south. With the Sun on the celestial equator, Earth dwellers will experience nearly 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness. To celebrate, consider this careful record of the Sun's yearly journey through southern Austrian skies. The scene is composed of images made at the same time each day, capturing the Sun's position on dates from September 29, 2011 through September 9, 2012. The multiple suns trace an intersecting curve known as an analemma. In fact, the past year's two equinox dates correspond to the middle (not the intersection point) of the curve. The summer and winter solstices are at the top and bottom. Of course, many would also consider it a good idea to travel along the mountain road toward the left, passing the vineyards along the way to reach the nearby town of Kitzeck and toast the equinox with a glass of wine. Near the roadside bench is a windmill-like klapotetz, traditionally used in this wine-growing region to keep the birds away.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>
[/b]

Borc

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Borc » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:58 am

This apod made me smile. It's a very pretty scene. Makes me feel just simply comfortable. It's relatively simple, this observation was made many years ago, but when you think about it it's still magnificent in it's own right. I appreciate this.
It illustrates to me even if something is well known, simple and understood it can still inspire a bit of awe. Something doesn't have to be light years long and parsecs away to be amazing. :)
I'd love to toast with you, Apod.

User avatar
Moonlady
Selenian
Posts: 665
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Moonlady » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:54 am

Owlice, did you pixelt the UFO at nine o'clock into a lens flare? :lol2:

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 4632
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by orin stepanek » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:38 pm

I would think the noise the windmill-like klapotetz made; would be more annoying than the birds eating a few of the grapes! :mrgreen:
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15731
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:54 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
orin stepanek wrote:
I would think the noise the windmill-like klapotetz made; would be more annoying than the birds eating a few of the grapes! :mrgreen:
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 14176
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:16 pm

Technically, it is inaccurate to broadly associate the equinoxes with the beginnings of autumn or spring across entire hemispheres. The equinoxes (and solstices) define the astronomical seasons, but not the meteorological seasons, and the beginnings of the seasons are defined for civil purposes in a variety of ways by different countries (definitions that are more likely to be customary than legal).
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

bngchild

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by bngchild » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:17 pm

Is it just me or do the shadows appear all wrong in these photos? The fence in the foreground is a great example. The trees in the landscape are another example.

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15731
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:41 pm

bngchild wrote:
Is it just me or do the shadows appear all wrong in these photos?
The fence in the foreground is a great example. The trees in the landscape are another example.
Unless there is a total eclipse: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap091220.html

...the background image must be taken at a different time of day
with the sun out of the picture: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap101231.html
Art Neuendorffer

Boomer12k
:---[===] *
Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:07 am

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Boomer12k » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:47 pm

bngchild wrote:Is it just me or do the shadows appear all wrong in these photos? The fence in the foreground is a great example. The trees in the landscape are another example.
Yes....Why are not the shadows of the posts, and the Seat at six o'clock, multiple shadows, of various lengths? It APPEARS that this shot is a composite of ONE shot of the ground, and then the Analemma placed above it. It would have to be shot on different days, and a corresponding correct time, and there should be blurring from wind, etc...Also, the left hillside is in SHADOW, like the sun is to the left, OFF PICTURE....Some of the shadows do not appear to trace back to the Analemma directly...the seat for instance... so I can see there are some (apparently) inconsistent things about the photo. But appearances can be deceiving.... but it is odd...

However....The Analemma looks also like the symbol for INFINITY!!! The Sun just keeps going and going...

:---[===] *

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15731
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:20 pm

Boomer12k wrote:
APOD Robot wrote:Image Austrian Analemma

Of course, many would also consider it a good idea to travel along the mountain road toward the left, passing the vineyards along the way to reach the nearby town of Kitzeck and toast the equinox with a glass of wine. Near the roadside bench is a windmill-like klapotetz, traditionally used in this wine-growing region to keep the birds away.
The Analemma looks also like the symbol for INFINITY!!! The Sun just keeps going and going...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity#History wrote:
<<John Wallis is credited with introducing the infinity symbol, Image (sometimes called the Lemniscate) in 1655 in his De sectionibus conicis. One conjecture as to why he chose this symbol is that he derived it from a Roman numeral for 1,000: M, which was in turn derived from the Etruscan numeral for 1,000, which looked somewhat like CIƆ and was sometimes used to mean "Many". Another conjecture is that he derived it from the Greek letter ω (omega), the last letter in the Greek alphabet. The infinity symbol is also sometimes depicted as a special variation of the ancient ouroboros snake symbol. The snake is twisted into the horizontal eight configuration while engaged in eating its own tail, a uniquely suitable symbol for endlessness. Leibniz, one of the co-inventors of infinitesimal calculus, speculated widely about infinite numbers and their use in mathematics. To Leibniz, both infinitesimals and infinite quantities were ideal entities, not of the same nature as appreciable quantities, but enjoying the same properties.>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzeck_im_Sausal wrote:
Image
<<Kitzeck is the central settlement in the Sausal mountain range in Southern Styria, Austria. It is the highest-altitude wine-growing community in Central Europe. [A folk belief states that klopotecs drive snakes from the vineyards.] Kitzeck is home to the first wine museum that was established in Styria (1979). The local church, dedicated to Our Lady of Sorrows, was built between 1640 and 1644. The funds were donated by a citizen of the nearby city, Leibnitz.
Art Neuendorffer

Czerno 1

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Czerno 1 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:38 pm

Anyone else notice how one point (around August 1st if I reckon correctly) is not positionned where expected,
rather displaced Westward (to the right) ?

It appears the picture on that particular day was taken a few minutes late :=(

Somehow ruining an otherwise interesting picture...

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15731
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:57 pm

Czerno 1 wrote:
Anyone else notice how one point (around August 1st if I reckon correctly) is not positioned where expected,
rather displaced Westward (to the right) ?
September 26th to be precise: http://astrofotos.at/index.php?view=det ... Itemid=134
Czerno 1 wrote:
It appears the picture on that particular day was taken a few minutes late :=(

Somehow ruining an otherwise interesting picture...
I wouldn't say ruin.
  • Ruin, v. t. [Cf. F. ruiner, LL. ruinare, OE. ruine, F. ruine, fr. L. ruina, fr. ruere, rutum, to fall with violence, to rush or tumble down.]

    To bring to ruin; to cause to fall to pieces and decay; to make to perish; to bring to destruction; to bring to poverty or bankruptcy; to impair seriously; to damage essentially; to overthrow.
    • By the fireside there are old men seated,
      Seeling ruined cities in the ashes.
      - Longfellow.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
owlice
Guardian of the Codes
Posts: 8350
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:18 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by owlice » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:21 pm

neufer wrote:
  • By the fireside there are old men seated,
    Seeling ruined cities in the ashes.
    - Longfellow.
Seeling... a rare typo from you, neufer!

It's a lovely poem; thank you.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.

Czerno 1

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Czerno 1 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:26 pm

neufer wrote:
Czerno 1 wrote:
Anyone else notice how one point (around August 1st ) ... ?
September 26th to be precise: http://astrofotos.at/index.php?view=det ... Itemid=134
According to which, it was taken on July 26th... Hint: buy better spectacles ;=)
Neufer wrote:
Czerno 1 wrote: It appears the picture on that particular day was taken a few minutes late :=(

Somehow ruining an otherwise interesting picture...
I wouldn't say ruin.
Wastes ? Spoils ? Diminishes the value of it, both aesthetic and educational ?

I would've excluded the faulty point from the compostion if it were me. Seems the analemma would be
better demonstrated. Just my opinion, or guts feeling.

User avatar
BMAONE23
Commentator Model 1.23
Posts: 4076
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by BMAONE23 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:46 pm

Boomer12k wrote:
bngchild wrote:Is it just me or do the shadows appear all wrong in these photos? The fence in the foreground is a great example. The trees in the landscape are another example.
Yes....Why are not the shadows of the posts, and the Seat at six o'clock, multiple shadows, of various lengths? It APPEARS that this shot is a composite of ONE shot of the ground, and then the Analemma placed above it. It would have to be shot on different days, and a corresponding correct time, and there should be blurring from wind, etc...Also, the left hillside is in SHADOW, like the sun is to the left, OFF PICTURE....Some of the shadows do not appear to trace back to the Analemma directly...the seat for instance... so I can see there are some (apparently) inconsistent things about the photo. But appearances can be deceiving.... but it is odd...

However....The Analemma looks also like the symbol for INFINITY!!! The Sun just keeps going and going...

:---[===] *
As Neufer pointed out the Analemma was taken looking directly at the Sun while the final background shot was taken later in the day. Hence the lens flare coming into frame from 9:30. For the filnal background image the sun was off to the left.

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15731
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:51 pm

Czerno 1 wrote:
neufer wrote:
Czerno 1 wrote:
Anyone else notice how one point (around August 1st ) ... ?
September 26th to be precise: http://astrofotos.at/index.php?view=det ... Itemid=134
According to which, it was taken on July 26th... Hint: buy better spectacles ;=)
September = the 7th month. (I really am as old as dirt.)
Czerno 1 wrote:
Neufer wrote:
Czerno 1 wrote: It appears the picture on that particular day was taken a few minutes late :=(

Somehow ruining an otherwise interesting picture...
I wouldn't say ruin.
Wastes ? Spoils ? Diminishes the value of it, both aesthetic and educational ?

I would've excluded the faulty point from the composition if it were me. Seems the analemma would be
better demonstrated. Just my opinion, or guts feeling.
Couldn't you have stated it a little more elegantly:
Last edited by neufer on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Beyond
500 Gigaderps
Posts: 6889
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:09 am
Location: BEYONDER LAND

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Beyond » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:59 pm

neufer wrote:(I really am as old as dirt.)
Welcome to the pile, kid. :lol2:
To find the Truth, you must go Beyond.

Robert-Austria
Ensign
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:42 pm
Location: Austria

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Robert-Austria » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Hello at all

Thanks for the appreciation.

On my website i wrote the exact exposuretime of the foreground.
I made the forground at 8:30 local time - the sun was some degrees left out of the field.
To reduce the gradient in the sky i used a Cokin ND4 Filter. So the sky was even flat. But you can see an UFO ;O)

I made nearly 100 different pictures to integrate the analemma at the exact time, but for me it was not possible to get a "beautiful" picture.
When you see something in the forground ~1/500" the sun was so bright, that a big area was saturated.
Sure its possible but you cant get a pretty picture.

The forgroundpicture was made with 10mm lense - i rent it from my friend for some days
The Analemma was made with 18mm -
To combine this two images i reduced the size of the 18mm image for 40% - so the size from 22.6. until 21.12. was nearly ok.

If you have some questions - please !!
You can send an email when you klick "Kontakt" on my website www.astrofotos.at

Kind regards
Robert

PS: Most of time the klapotetz are out of order - i think they wouldt be too loud. They are fixed with a chain ....

nz1m
Ensign
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:34 am

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by nz1m » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:37 pm

I'm curious. Would one have to take this sequence of photos on the equator for the Analemma to be the perfect figure 8? The farther north, the smaller the upper 8 arc? The farther south the smaller lower 8 arc?

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15731
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by neufer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:48 pm

nz1m wrote:
Would one have to take this sequence of photos on the equator for the Analemma to be the perfect figure 8? The farther north, the smaller the upper 8 arc? The farther south the smaller lower 8 arc?
The Analemma looks physically the same for everyone; however, for those south of the equator one would view it to ones North and thus it would appear upside down.
Art Neuendorffer

Czerno 1

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Czerno 1 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:33 am

Robert-Austria wrote:Hello at all
Thanks for the appreciation.

If you have some questions - please !!
Good morning Sir.
Above I've been wondering what cause made the Sept. 26 image of the Sun to be
apparently a few minutes late wrt to the other shots.

Admittedly I have no experience with the practical setting and operative difficulties.
Could you please enlighten us ?

A few random questions (these are genuine, possibly naive questions, not criticiing BTW) :

Were the snapshots triggered manually or by clockwork ? Might the "offending" shot have been delayed by wheather conditions ? If it was manual triggering, and if the shot was taken intentionally later than schedule, wouldn't it have been better to omit it (maybe doing a replacement picture on the next day) instead ?

I assume the original composition was taken on conventional phto film rather than digital medium, is this correct?

TIA

Czerno 1

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by Czerno 1 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:45 am

Update : in personal email Herr Pölzl (the photographer) has confirmed the offending shot was
accidentally delayed by 2 minutes.

codetonic

Re: APOD: Austrian Analemma (2012 Sep 22)

Post by codetonic » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:43 pm

Sorry. Should have read more before posting. Please ignore the questions about the light on the fence rails.