APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07)

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APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07)

Post by APOD Robot » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:07 am

Image Superstorm Sandy From Formation to Landfall

Explanation: It was the largest hurricane ever recorded in the Atlantic Ocean. The cost of its devastation is still unknown. Pictured above is a movie of Superstorm Sandy taken by the Earth-orbiting GOES-13 satellite over eight days in late October as the hurricane formed, gained strength, advanced across the Caribbean, moved up the Atlantic Ocean along the US east coast, made an unusual turn west, made landfall in New Jersey, turned back to the north over Pennsylvania, and then broke up moving north-east over the northern US and Canada. Although Sandy's winds were high and dangerous, perhaps even more damaging was the storm surge of water pushed onto land ahead of Sandy, a surge that flooded many coastal areas, streets, and parts of the New York City subway system. Spanning over 1500 kilometers, US states as far west as Wisconsin experienced parts of the storm. Although Hurricane Sandy might have formed at any almost time, concerns are being raised that large storms like Sandy might become more common if water in the Atlantic continues to edge higher in power-enhancing surface temperature.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by guest23453456 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:41 am

Anyone know why there seems to be a cycle where something makes the clouds more pronounced then lets them fade before making them pronounced again? Looks like a line going across the frame...

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by FLPhotoCatcher » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:05 am

guest23453456 wrote:Anyone know why there seems to be a cycle where something makes the clouds more pronounced then lets them fade before making them pronounced again? Looks like a line going across the frame...
It's the day/night transition.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Confused » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:49 am

I am using IE 9 and I see nothing but white instead of a satelite image. When I use Safari, Seamonkey and Chrome I see the satelite image and everything is good as far as I can tell. IE 9 however refuses to work for this. So in case anyone else has this issue, you are not the only one.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Indigo_Sunrise » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:21 pm

This is one of the most impressive videos I've ever seen!
AWESOME!


:thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up:
Forget the box, just get outside.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by MadMan56 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:05 pm

While the storm is rotating counter clockwise, I was surprised to see the outer spiral arms always flow clockwise.

buck

Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by buck » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:05 pm

I propose that NASA recall the Juno spacecraft (on a mission to Jupiter) on the spacecraft's rendevous with the Earth in 2013. The Juno spacecraft will be needed on future weather surveillance work involving global warmimg and its effects on the US economy. Sandy, or its successors, will be back to batter the Caribbean Sea and north Atlantic with increasing intensity given the world's careless management of energy and mineral resources. The Juno spacecraft should be installed in an orbit that will allow comprehensive imaging of the north Atlantic and Greenland and Wall street

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Boomer12k » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:00 pm

And people expect the damage to be fixed overnight....right....

My sister's name is Sandy...She is the "Dark Queen of Destruction", and she can desssstttrrroooyyy you will her little finger.....our little joke....

Interesting shades of blue and aqua around the Bahamas.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Psnarf » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:11 pm

I'm fascinated by the fluid dynamics forming those clouds. In undergrad physics I learned that there is no such force as "warm/moist air rising." Cold dry air is more dense, so the force of gravity is greater on a cubic meter of cold and/or dry air. Gravity pulls that air down, displacing the warm wet air. How that forms a cumulus cloud is something my feeble brain has yet to grasp.

When the day/night transition (terminator?) is still east of the storm, the shadows from the clouds heading for the tropopause highlight the structure. Didn't have any GOES when I was a youngling.

Set271

Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Set271 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:06 pm

Everyone says I'm crazy but, I'm going on record here and now. Isn't the hundreds(if not thousands) of square miles of wind-farms slowing down the surface winds? Which cool and help maintain the (surface)temperature. Our atmosphere goes all the way to the most solid parts of the core of the earth. It is only the outer, thinnest layer in which our weather develops and the wind moves. From the top most part of our atmosphere to the depths of the ocean, unless acted upon by an event from above(solar) or below(volcano/ash), our (major)weather events come from the most minute temperature fluctuations within that (relatively)very thin layer. In physics we are taught about using a fulcrum and a rod to move large things with very little force. Maybe the (weather/temperature)fulcrum is very close to one end of the rod and maybe the fulcrum slides very easily.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by neufer » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:09 pm

Psnarf wrote:
In undergrad physics I learned that there is no such force as "warm/moist air rising." Cold dry air is more dense, so the force of gravity is greater on a cubic meter of cold and/or dry air. Gravity pulls that air down, displacing the warm wet air. How that forms a cumulus cloud is something my feeble brain has yet to grasp.
It is often more convenient to consider "frame of reference" apparent forces (e.g., centrifugal, Coriolis, buoyant-displacement) than actual fundamental forces.

When warm/moist air rises it cools (by decreasing in pressure) at which point gravity normally pulls it back down.

However, when that same warm/moist air rises enough it will condense and, thereby, release a considerable amount of latent heat (i.e., the opposite of evaporative cooling) such that "gravity pushes up" the rewarmed (hence less dense) air even further.

The well defined bottom of a cumulus cloud simply represents the altitude at which rising pockets of warm air cool enough to first condense (i.e., to reach 100% relative humidity).

The top of a cumulus cloud represents the altitude at which those rising rewarmed condensed warm air pockets re-cool sufficiently so that they can no longer rise.
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by LocalColor » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:28 pm

Thank you for posting this. Fascinating.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by neufer » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:37 pm

Set271 wrote:
Everyone says I'm crazy but, I'm going on record here and now. Isn't the hundreds(if not thousands) of square miles of wind-farms slowing down the surface winds? Which cool and help maintain the (surface)temperature.
Our winds are driven primarily by the temperature difference between the warm tropics and the cold polar regions.

Human global warming is already having a strong & noticeable impact on warming our cold Arctic region (as predicted).

Therefore, human global warming must be having a strong & noticeable impact on decreasing Northern hemispheric winds.

Such impacts far exceed anything that hundreds of thousands of square miles of Northern hemispheric wind-farms might do.
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by flash » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:02 pm

neufer wrote: Human global warming is already having a strong & noticeable impact on warming our cold Arctic region (as predicted).
The arctic is warming, but so too are the tropics. I sumbit that the difference in the rates of warming between them is the issue here regarding increasing or decreasing winds...

That the arctic is warming is undeniable, but attributing that to us humans is probably hubris... :oops: While it is believeable (and perhaps even likely) that humans have contributed to this warming trend it is also true that arctic areas have warmed and cooled many times in the distant past (can you say "ICE AGE"?) without any help at all from us humans. Why we blame humans for this cycle should be the topic for a psychological study. What little effect humans do have on climate might (in time) help avoid nuclear winter should the unthinkable occur. :shock: Changes in the balance of incoming and outgoing energy is the cause of climate change. Small, natural changes in any of many factors beyond human control (such as meteor impact, Solar output variance, precession, magnetic field reversal, etc) will have a much larger effect on our climate than anything we have done. That's what caused all the other climate cycles, and that's what will cause the rest unless we blow ourselves up first.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by neufer » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:15 pm

MadMan56 wrote:
While the storm is rotating counter clockwise, I was surprised to see the outer spiral arms always flow clockwise.
Warm moist boundary layer ocean air rushes in to the rapidly counter clockwise rotating eye wall like a figure skater pulling her in arms.

That warm moist boundary layer ocean air then rises & condenses... thereby reheating & rising even faster.
Most of the rapid counter clockwise spinning velocity is dissipated in the violent rising eye wall turbulence.

The moisture that doesn't rain out of the eye wall ends up as a high cirrus cloud exhaust plume
which expands out in all directions & thereby end up rotating in a clockwise direction due to Coriolis forces.

(Warm core) hurricanes are thus a strong low pressure counter clockwise cyclone near the surface
but a warm high pressure clockwise anticyclone at altitude.

When warm core Hurricane Sandy turned into a post-tropical/extra-tropical cold core cyclone
it turned into a strong low pressure counter clockwise cyclone at ALL altitudes
(as can be observed at the end of the APOD video).
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by neufer » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:27 pm

flash wrote:
neufer wrote:
Human global warming is already having a strong & noticeable impact on warming our cold Arctic region (as predicted).
The arctic is warming, but so too are the tropics.
The arctic warming is enhanced due to a positive feedback mechanism of less sea ice reflecting sunlight.

The tropical warming is suppressed due to a negative feedback mechanism of more clouds reflecting sunlight.
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by FloridaMike » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:29 pm

flash wrote:
neufer wrote: Human global warming is already having a strong & noticeable impact on warming our cold Arctic region (as predicted).
The arctic is warming, but so too are the tropics. I sumbit that the difference in the rates of warming between them is the issue here regarding increasing or decreasing winds...

That the arctic is warming is undeniable, but attributing that to us humans is probably hubris... :oops: While it is believeable (and perhaps even likely) that humans have contributed to this warming trend it is also true that arctic areas have warmed and cooled many times in the distant past (can you say "ICE AGE"?) without any help at all from us humans. Why we blame humans for this cycle should be the topic for a psychological study. What little effect humans do have on climate might (in time) help avoid nuclear winter should the unthinkable occur. :shock: Changes in the balance of incoming and outgoing energy is the cause of climate change. Small, natural changes in any of many factors beyond human control (such as meteor impact, Solar output variance, precession, magnetic field reversal, etc) will have a much larger effect on our climate than anything we have done. That's what caused all the other climate cycles, and that's what will cause the rest unless we blow ourselves up first.

Or, it may be that you are ignoring a lot of physical science that has nothing to do with psychology.
Certainty is an emotion. So follow your spindle neurons.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:41 pm

flash wrote:That the arctic is warming is undeniable, but attributing that to us humans is probably hubris... :oops: While it is believeable (and perhaps even likely) that humans have contributed to this warming trend it is also true that arctic areas have warmed and cooled many times in the distant past (can you say "ICE AGE"?) without any help at all from us humans. Why we blame humans for this cycle should be the topic for a psychological study. What little effect humans do have on climate might (in time) help avoid nuclear winter should the unthinkable occur.
Because there is no doubt that the warming is caused by humans. Nor that the current rapid change in global heat content is almost entirely caused by humans. There is no hubris involved. The fact that other mechanisms can also cause climate change in no way means that they are responsible for the current change... indeed, they are not. This is pretty much all on us. Humans do not have only a little effect on climate. We are a major forcer.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by saturno2 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:55 pm

The central part of a hurracane is like a spiral galaxy.
Have the same motion.
Eye ( hurracane) = black hole ( galaxy ) ??
= as similar

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Qweenie » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:16 pm

Hurricane Sandy was never more than a category 1 storm but it wrought enough damage to NY & NJ to match Hurricane Katrina, a category 5. Sandy pulled heat and water vapour from the Gulf Stream, which is much cooler than the Gulf of Mexico, which hits over 30°C and quickly turns category 1 storms into Catefory 4 and 5. I really hate to think how much damage a category 5 could do to NYC & NJ if coupled with the same high tides and storm surge.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by geckzilla » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:53 pm

Athena dumped enough snow on us fast enough that even the well traveled roads are very slippery. Sanitation was already just barely picking up our garbage. They've got their work cut out for them because now they need to plow all the snow and I wonder if they have fuel for the trucks. Pat is currently stuck at the hospital. He waited half an hour to get out of his parking spot and then gave up and put the car back in. I guess he's not going to make it home tonight.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by StarCuriousAero » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:04 pm

How many more record breaking weather events do we need to witness before people stop denying global warming is happening all around us... and that all likely evidence points to us as the causal factor? Either we need to elect more knowlegable people, or else. This issue needs to be addressed immediately, else we'll see massive global issues: famine, drought, sickness, heat deaths, cold deaths and who knows what else. Why can't we get retired scientists running for office as often as retired lawyers? (half of which made their careers out of lying, why should we be surprised to see the same behavior from Congress, state legislatures, etc?) Sorry to bring more politics to a science website... but I'd love to see the scientific community come together and take on these issues (more publicly). We need more vocal scientists like Neil deGrasse Tyson!

By the way, amazing apod (avod?), keep up the good work!

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by Anthony Barreiro » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:21 am

"Awesome" is an over-used word, but this video is literally awesome. Seeing how big and powerful this storm was, and contemplating how much damage it did, I experience "overwhelming wonder, admiration, respect, [and] dread."

Now that such a huge and destructive storm has impacted New York and New Jersey, more of us here in the US are finally considering the reality and consequences of global warming and climate change. Less privileged people in the third world are already experiencing more frequent and more destructive storms, drought, disease, etc. Polar ice caps are at historic lows. The oceans are acidifying and the coral reefs are dying. Species all over the Earth are disappearing at rates that haven't occurred since the last global extinction that killed off the dinosaurs and 90 percent of all other species. But now that Snooky's porch was washed away, we're finally starting to take this seriously. I'm sorry to be so negative, but honestly that's how I'm feeling right now.
May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free.

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Winter Storm Yogi?

Post by neufer » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:01 am

geckzilla wrote:
Athena dumped enough snow on us fast enough that even the well traveled roads are very slippery.
http://www.komonews.com/weather/blogs/scott/Naming-NorEaster-Athena-creates-controversy-in-weather-community-177753001.html wrote:
Naming Nor'Easter ''Athena'' creates controversy in weather community
By Scott Sistek Published: Nov 7, 2012 at 3:15 PM PST Last Updated: Nov 7, 2012 at 3:45 PM PST

<<The Nor'Easter bearing down on New England Wednesday has been given the name "Athena" by the folks at The Weather Channel -- the inaugural name on the list of winter storm names the channel created this season.

The Weather Channel went on their own and created a policy of naming winter storms in October, figuring a named storm will make communications easier, especially on social media where the storm could become a hashtag.

With "Athena", TWC said the storm meets their criteria for naming the storm due to the possibility of several inches of snow across some areas that were still recovering from Sandy, including the interior sections of New Jersey.

But not everyone is playing along with the idea.

The National Weather Service issued a directive to their East Coast forecasters not to use the name Athena in any of their forecasts or warnings. "The NWS does not use name (sic) winter storms in our products," the message read. "Please refrain from using the term Athena in any of our products."

The controversy stems from a private weather enterprise taking the reigns of this initiative without global support from the weather community. Hurricane names are governed by the World Meteorological Organization and have a strict criteria for when they are to be used, and what names to use.

But this winter storm list is being used by just one part of the greater weather community. If the NWS and other private weather services are not on board, could there be confusion? If the NWS is talking about a "storm" in the general sense and TWC is focused on Athena, and it's the same storm, but not spoken about the same way then...what?

And unlike a hurricane or tropical storm, there is also no set criteria for naming the storm and it appears it's up to TWC alone whether to give the storm the moniker, but then expect the rest of the world to just follow along.

A search of #Athena on Twitter found confusion on there. But I will say the hashtag search did provide quite a bit of storm information as well with a clearinghouse for some photos coming in from the storm. So in that sense, the concept is a success.

But for the non social media aspect, if you've got one TV channel saying one thing, and the National Weather Service saying (or not saying) another, and what happens if some local TV stations do use the name and others don't and... you get what I'm saying. With no global mandate, this can get pretty muddled. So I'd say the concept is a good idea, but I think it needs to be done on a global weather community scale, not just have one part -- yes, an important part, but just one part -- unilaterally say so.

(And "Winter Storm 'Q'? 'Orko'? 'Gandolf'? Is there a danger some of the names are so silly that the storm won't be taken seriously? There's a reason we don't have "Hurricane Fluffy Bunny"). I think actually the best of both worlds might lie in what Portland has come up with: The hashtag #pdxtst. Short for "Portland Twitter! Storm! Team!" it was born as a poke against the local media for hyping our own winter storms.

But it caught on so well that it's now the standard hashtag for any weather event there, be it wind, snow or flooding (or lightning). Even the local emergency managers have caught on. In public forecasts, the storms are treated as their usual unnamed selves but locals know to find the latest info using that hashtag.

Maybe it doesn't work as well on a national or large regional scale, but maybe there is a happy medium out there. In the meantime, we're just left to wonder when Winter Storm Nemo will strike.
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Superstorm Sandy From Formation to... (2012 Nov 07

Post by geckzilla » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:28 pm

I knew you'd figure out what I was talking about, Art.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.