APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

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APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by APOD Robot » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:05 am

Image Super Moon vs Micro Moon

Explanation: Did you see the big, bright, beautiful Full Moon Wednesday night? That was actually a Micro Moon! On that night, the smallest Full Moon of 2012 reached its full phase only about 4 hours before apogee, the most distant point from Earth in the Moon's elliptical orbit. Of course, earlier this year on May 6, a Full Super Moon was near perigee, the closest point in its orbit. The relative apparent size of November 28's Micro Moon (right) is compared to the famous May 6 Super Moon in these two panels, matching telescopic images from Bucharest, Romania. The difference in apparent size represents a difference in distance of just under 50,000 kilometers between apogee and perigee, given the Moon's average distance of about 385,000 kilometers. How long do you have to wait to see another Full Micro Moon? Until January 16, 2014, when the lunar full phase will occur within about 3 hours of apogee.

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by owlice » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 am

Someone works very quickly!
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by starsurfer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:47 am

owlice wrote:Someone works very quickly!
Who? The global astronomical community united together in euphoric communion of the universe?!! :D :D

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Tszabeau » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:31 pm

The Moon's wobble is, also, made apparent in these two photos by plotting and comparing landmark craters.

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by neufer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:49 pm

Shouldn't it be "Macro Moon vs Micro Moon" :?:
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by petsie » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:52 pm

Even if I appear overly strict: the left image has got the 5th of May and the text tells me about the day after this date. A bit confusing, isn't it?

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:56 pm

One of the oldest written records of our Moon in a written form is found at Genesis 1:16 where this object is referred to as "the lesser luminary for dominating the night". I'm grateful that our lesser luminary exists and that its orbit is such that eclipses are so wonderfully varried.

Bruce
Last edited by BDanielMayfield on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by neufer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:28 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
The oldest record of our Moon in a written form is found at Genesis 1:16 where this object is referred to as "the lesser luminary for dominating the night". I'm grateful that our lesser luminary exists and that its orbit is such that eclipses are so wonderfully varried.
  • The oldest :?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#In_culture wrote:
<<The Moon's regular phases make it a very convenient timepiece, and the periods of its waxing and waning form the basis of many of the oldest calendars. Tally sticks, notched bones dating as far back as 20–30,000 years ago, are believed by some to mark the phases of the Moon. The ~30-day month is an approximation of the lunar cycle. The English noun month and its cognates in other Germanic languages stem from Proto-Germanic *mǣnṓth-, which is connected to the above mentioned Proto-Germanic *mǣnōn, indicating the usage of a lunar calendar among the Germanic peoples (Germanic calendar) prior to the adoption of a solar calendar. The same Indo-European root as moon led, via Latin, to measure and menstrual, words which echo the Moon's importance to many ancient cultures in measuring time (see Latin mensis and Ancient Greek μήνας (mēnas), meaning "month").

The Moon has been the subject of many works of art and literature and the inspiration for countless others. It is a motif in the visual arts, the performing arts, poetry, prose and music. A 5,000-year-old rock carving at Knowth, Ireland, may represent the Moon, which would be the earliest depiction discovered. The contrast between the brighter highlands and the darker maria creates the patterns seen by different cultures as the Man in the Moon, the rabbit and the buffalo, among others. In many prehistoric and ancient cultures, the Moon was personified as a deity or other supernatural phenomenon, and astrological views of the Moon continue to be propagated today.

Lucian's Icaromenippus and True History, written in the 2nd century AD, deal with imaginary voyages to the moon such as on a fountain after going past the Pillars of Hercules. The theme did not become popular until the 17th century, however, when the invention of the telescope hastened the popular acceptance of the concept of "a world in the Moon", that is, that the Moon was an inhabitable planet, which might be reached via some sort of aërial carriage. The concept of another world, close to our own and capable of looking down at it from a distance, provided ample scope for satirical comments on the manners of the Earthly world.>>
Last edited by neufer on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by geckzilla » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:41 pm

I find it difficult to believe that the Bible contains the first written record of anything other than its own mythology.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by John A. » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:23 pm

Can anyone tell me the difference in the light reflected from the moon between the maximum and minimum apparent sizes of the moon when it is full?

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by neufer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:42 pm

John A. wrote:
Can anyone tell me the difference in the light reflected from the moon
between the maximum and minimum apparent sizes of the moon when it is full?
12% farther means [5 x log(1.12) ~] ¼ of a magnitude fainter.
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Canadian Grandma » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:57 pm

One of the delights of this page is the tangental (is that a word?) information that one learns--beside the original topic.
Thank you all.

Rise22

Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Rise22 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:21 pm

I find it interesting that the explanation says the date May 6, 2012...while the date UNDER the moon is 5-5-2012....did we gain a day - or lose one?

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by neufer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:29 pm

geckzilla wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that the Bible contains the first written record of anything other than its own mythology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khonsu wrote:
ImageImage
[c]Khonsu is typically depicted as a mummy with the symbol of childhood,
a sidelock of hair, as well as the menat necklace with crook and flail.
He has close links to other divine children such as Horus and Shu.
He is sometimes shown wearing a falcon's head like Horus,
with whom he is associated as a protector and healer,
adorned with the sun disk and crescent moon.[/c]
<<Khonsu (alternately Chonsu, Khensu, Khons, Chons or Khonshu) is an Ancient Egyptian god whose main role was associated with the moon. His name means "traveller" and this may relate to the nightly travel of the moon across the sky. Along with Thoth he marked the passage of time. Khonsu was instrumental in the creation of new life in all living creatures. At Thebes he formed part of a family triad with Mut as his mother and Amun his father.

Khonsu is mentioned in the Pyramid Texts (2686 BC – 2181 BC) and Coffin Texts (ca. 2181-2055 BC), in which he is depicted in a fierce aspect, but he does not rise to prominence until the New Kingdom (ca. 1550–1070 B.C.), when he is described as the "Greatest God of the Great Gods". Locations of Khonsu's cult were Memphis, Hibis and Edfu. Most of the construction of the temple complex at Karnak (c. 1550–c. 1292 BC) was centered on Khonsu during the Ramesside Period. His temple at Karnak is in a relatively good state of preservation, and on one of the walls is depicted a cosmogeny in which Khonsu is described as the great snake who fertilizes the Cosmic Egg in the creation of the world.

As the god of light in the night, Khonsu was invoked to protect against wild animals, increase male virility, and to aid with healing. It was said that when Khonsu caused the crescent moon to shine, women conceived, cattle became fertile, and all nostrils and every throat was filled with fresh air. Khonsu can also be understood to mean king's placenta, and consequently in early times, he was considered to slay the king's (i.e. the pharaoh's) enemies, and extract their innards for the king's use, metaphorically creating something resembling a placenta for the king. This bloodthirsty aspect leads him to be referred to, in such as the Pyramid texts, as the (one who) lives on hearts.

Khonsu is typically depicted as a mummy with the symbol of childhood, a sidelock of hair, as well as the menat necklace with crook and flail. He has close links to other divine children such as Horus and Shu. He is sometimes shown wearing a falcon's head like Horus, with whom he is associated as a protector and healer, adorned with the sun disk and crescent moon. In art, Khonsu was depicted as a man with the head of a hawk, wearing the crescent of the new moon subtending the disc of the full moon. He was sometimes pictured on the back of a goose, ram, or two crocodiles. His sacred animal was the baboon, considered a lunar animal by the ancient Egyptians.>>
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:53 pm

geckzilla wrote:I find it difficult to believe that the Bible contains the first written record of anything other than its own mythology.
Yeah, Genesis isn't even close to the earliest written reference to the Moon. Genesis only dates to a few hundred years BCE. There are Babylonian cuneiform tablets with astronomical data for the Moon that considerably predate that.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by bystander » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:06 pm

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He who is without Sin....

Post by neufer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:09 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that the Bible contains the first written record of anything other than its own mythology.
Yeah, Genesis isn't even close to the earliest written reference to the Moon. Genesis only dates to a few hundred years BCE.
There are Babylonian cuneiform tablets with astronomical data for the Moon that considerably predate that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%28mythology%29 wrote: <<Sin (Akkadian: Su'en, Sîn) or Nanna (Sumerian: DŠEŠ.KI, DNANNA) was the god of the moon in the Mesopotamian mythology of Akkad, Assyria and Babylonia. Nanna is a Sumerian deity, the son of Enlil and Ninlil, and became identified with Semitic Sin. The two chief seats of Nanna's/Sin's worship were Ur in the south of Mesopotamia and Harran in the north.

He is commonly designated as En-zu, which means "lord of wisdom". During the period (c.2600-2400 BCE) that Ur exercised a large measure of supremacy over the Euphrates valley, Sin was naturally regarded as the head of the pantheon. It is to this period that we must trace such designations of Sin as "father of the gods", "chief of the gods", "creator of all things", and the like. The "wisdom" personified by the moon-god is likewise an expression of the science of astronomy or the practice of astrology, in which the observation of the moon's phases is an important factor.

An important Sumerian text ("Enlil and Ninlil") tells of the descent of Enlil and Ninlil, pregnant with Nanna/Sin, into the underworld. There, three "substitutions" are given to allow the ascent of Nanna/Sin. Sin's wife was Ningal ("Great Lady"), who bore him Utu/Shamash ("Sun") and Inanna/Ishtar (the goddess of the planet Venus). The tendency to centralize the powers of the universe leads to the establishment of the doctrine of a triad consisting of Sin/Nanna and his children.

Sin had a beard made of lapis lazuli and rode on a winged bull. The bull was one of his symbols, through his father, Enlil, "Bull of Heaven", along with the crescent and the tripod (which may be a lamp-stand). On cylinder seals, he is represented as an old man with a flowing beard and the crescent symbol. In the astral-theological system he is represented by the number 30 and the moon. This number probably refers to the average number of days (correctly around 29.53) in a lunar month, as measured between successive new moons.
Image
Nanna's chief sanctuary at Ur was named E-gish-shir-gal ("house of the great light"). It was at Ur that the role of the En Priestess developed. This was an extremely powerful role held by a princess, most notably Enheduanna, daughter of King Sargon of Akkad, and was the primary cult role associated with the cult of Nanna/Sin.

Sin also had a sanctuary at the Assyrian city of Harran, named E-khul-khul ("house of joys"). The cult of the moon-god spread to other centers, so that temples to him are found in all the large cities of Babylonia and Assyria. A sanctuary for Sin with Syriac inscriptions invoking his name dating to the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE was found at Sumatar Harabesi in the Tektek mountains, not far from Harran and Edessa.>>
Art (bull is one of his symbols) Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Boomer12k » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:54 pm

It's the Energizer Rabbit in the Moon.

Great comparison shot.

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Remo » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:55 pm

John A. wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference in the light reflected from the moon between the maximum and minimum apparent sizes of the moon when it is full?
The amount of light reflected is always the same; however, I'm sure you mean the amount of light reaching your eyeball or illuminating the night landscape. This varies based on the inverse square law. (It also corresponds the "solid angle" the moon makes against the celestial background. At its perigee the moon takes up 25% more space against the background)

According to Wiki, Apogee is 405,400 km and Perigee is 362,600 km (using 4 sig figs). This means the difference in the amount of light is (4054/3626)^2 = 1.25 =125%. So at its Perigee, the full moon shines 25% more light back to earth.

Magnitude is a logarithmic scale which comes closer to mimicking how the human brain interprets "brightness". But if you are interested in the amount of light whether it be for taking an image or running a photo voltaic cell, or whatever, this is your answer.

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by LocalColor » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:41 pm

It was cloudy here for the lunar minimum, however we could see the bright spots of both the moon and Jupiter very near each other through the clouds.

Last May we caught the maximum.
Last edited by owlice on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: changed img tag to img2 tag

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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:44 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:One of the oldest written records of our Moon in a written form is found at Genesis 1:16 where this object is referred to as "the lesser luminary for dominating the night". I'm grateful that our lesser luminary exists and that its orbit is such that eclipses are so wonderfully varried.

Bruce
Please note correction.
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by bystander » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:58 pm

geckzilla wrote:I find it difficult to believe that the Bible contains the first written record of anything other than its own mythology.
Even the basis for that can be found in preexisting mythologies dating back to the dawn of mankind.
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by Anthony Barreiro » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:07 pm

Tszabeau wrote:The Moon's wobble is, also, made apparent in these two photos by plotting and comparing landmark craters.
I noticed this too. Following up on Neufer's lunar etymology from wikipedia, "wobble" seems to be a fine Germanic root word, while "libration" has that sophisticated Latinate vibe. :ssmile:

I recently had an "aha" moment: The Moon's north-south libration is caused by the inclination of her equator relative to the plane of her orbit around the Earth. Seasons on Earth are caused by the inclination of the Earth's equator to the plane of her orbit around the Sun. The Moon's east-west libration is caused by the eccentricity of her orbit around the Earth. The slowing down and speeding up of true solar noon on Earth relative to mean solar noon (i.e. the equation of time) is caused by the eccentricity of Earth's orbit around the Sun. As above, so below!
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by bystander » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:00 pm

Tszabeau wrote:The Moon's wobble is, also, made apparent in these two photos by plotting and comparing landmark craters.
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?p=188007#p188007
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Re: APOD: Super Moon vs Micro Moon (2012 Nov 29)

Post by FloridaMike » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:07 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:One of the oldest written records of our Moon in a written form is found at Genesis 1:16 where this object is referred to as "the lesser luminary for dominating the night". I'm grateful that our lesser luminary exists and that its orbit is such that eclipses are so wonderfully varried.

Bruce
Please note correction.

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