APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

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APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by APOD Robot » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:06 am

Image Star Forming Region NGC 3582

Explanation: What's happening in the NGC 3582 nebula? Bright stars and interesting molecules are forming. The complex nebula resides in the star forming region called RCW 57. Visible in this image are dense knots of dark interstellar dust, bright stars that have formed in the past few million years, fields of glowing hydrogen gas ionized by these stars, and great loops of gas expelled by dying stars. A detailed study of NGC 3582, also known as NGC 3584 and NGC 3576, uncovered at least 33 massive stars in the end stages of formation, and the clear presence of the complex carbon molecules known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). PAHs are thought to be created in the cooling gas of star forming regions, and their development in the Sun's formation nebula five billion years ago may have been an important step in the development of life on Earth. The above image was taken at the Desert Hollow Observatory north of Phoenix, Arizona, USA.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by glueguru » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:26 am

Wonderful photo of "New life?" Side tracked for a moment -the dark region just above the blue star forming region in the center of the photo looks like a standing rat!

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by starstuck » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:44 am

I was thinking that the bottom middle bright yellow area looks a lot like a dragon's head :ssmile:

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by starsurfer » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:26 am

I've not read much about this region and I didn't know it contained PAH's!! Also I'm pretty sure this image wasn't taken from their northern observatory as this nebula has a declination of -61, maybe it was a southern imaging trip? I'm pretty sure the most southern declination observable from the southern states of America is -40.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by fozzy » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:23 pm

Where does all that dust come from? I mean that is alot of dust. How much dust is there in that picture. Is it enough to make a planet? How did the dust get distributed the way it is?

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by rstevenson » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:47 pm

I was wondering about the different NGC numbers for the same region. I found this at atlasoftheuniverse.com...
This nebula is a minor nebula in the Sagittarius arm of the Galaxy a few thousand light years from the Eta Carinae nebula. When John Herschel discovered this nebula in 1834 he could only see several bright nebulous patches and eventually this nebula received six separate classification numbers. [NGC 3576, 3579, 3581, 3582, 3584 and 3586] These days astronomers usually call the entire nebula NGC 3576.
That page has a map showing which parts correspond to which designation.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by neufer » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by mdc_in_va » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:10 pm

How is it possible that this image was taken from north of Phoenix AZ? Phoenix's latitude is at least 33°N, and according to SEDS this complex is around 61° S declination.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by Chris Peterson » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:25 pm

mdc_in_va wrote:How is it possible that this image was taken from north of Phoenix AZ? Phoenix's latitude is at least 33°N, and according to SEDS this complex is around 61° S declination.
At its highest in the sky (in March), this object is about 5° below the horizon from Phoenix.

I'd suggest it was taken by the operator of the Desert Hollow Observatory, either on a trip to the Southern Hemisphere or using a remote telescope there. It clearly was not taken from Arizona.

It's regrettable that the observatory website, while featuring so many fine images, provides no technical details for many of them.
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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by neufer » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:58 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
mdc_in_va wrote:
How is it possible that this image was taken from north of Phoenix AZ?
Phoenix's latitude is at least 33°N, and according to SEDS this complex is around 61° S declination.
I'd suggest it was taken by the operator of the Desert Hollow Observatory, either on a trip to the Southern Hemisphere or using a remote telescope there. It clearly was not taken from Arizona.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritchey%E2%80%93Chr%C3%A9tien_telescope wrote:
Image
<<A Ritchey–Chrétien telescope (RCT or simply RC) is a specialized Cassegrain telescope that has a hyperbolic primary mirror and a hyperbolic secondary mirror designed to eliminate optical errors (coma). They have large field of view free of optical errors compared to a more conventional reflecting telescope configuration. Since the mid 20th century most large professional research telescopes have been Ritchey–Chrétien configurations.

The Ritchey–Chrétien telescope was invented in the early 1910s by American astronomer George Willis Ritchey and French astronomer Henri Chrétien. Ritchey constructed the first successful RCT, which had a diameter aperture of 60 cm (24 in) in 1927 (e.g. Ritchey 24-inch reflector). The second RCT was a 102 cm (40 in) instrument constructed by Ritchey for the United States Naval Observatory; that telescope is still in operation at the Naval Observatory Flagstaff Station.

The Ritchey–Chrétien design is free of third-order coma and spherical aberration, although it does suffer from fifth-order coma, severe large-angle astigmatism, and comparatively severe field curvature. When focused midway between the sagittal and tangential focusing planes, stars are imaged as circles, making the RCT well suited for wide field and photographic observations. As with the other Cassegrain-configuration reflectors, the RCT has a very short optical tube assembly and compact design for a given focal length. The RCT offers good off-axis optical performance, but examples are relatively rare due to the high cost of hyperbolic primary mirror fabrication.>>
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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by Anthony Barreiro » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:51 pm

This is an awesome image with very dramatic shapes and colors. It looks like it could have been painted by JMW Turner. I understand the blue reflection nebulae and the very dark dark nebulae. Is the brownish stuff a "not-so-dark dark nebula" with starlight partly shining through the dust? Or is it a narrowband image of some sort of emission nebula? If so, what's glowing? The polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, like the sooty, smokey flames of the Great Fire?

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by neufer » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:28 pm

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by Psnarf » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:24 pm

I'm reminded of a Swiss study from the early 70's(?) which measured high concentrations of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (and lead) in snow deposited 1/4 mile on either side of high-traffic thoroughfares, such as interstate highways and autobahns. Measured concentrations tapered off to relatively acceptable levels farther away from the highway within the 1/2mi corridors studied. What disturbs me is the conspicuous absence of any follow-up studies or media attention. The same chemicals in our ecosystem kills, yet are the source of life in the stellar medium? Probably accumulated by cigarette-smoking interplanetary barge drivers.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by stephen63 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:06 pm

With all the talk of PAHs, I'd nearly forgotten about buckyballs :lol2:

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:09 pm

fozzy wrote:Where does all that dust come from? I mean that is alot of dust. How much dust is there in that picture. Is it enough to make a planet? How did the dust get distributed the way it is?
Yes fozzy there is a lot of dust in today’s apod. The dust (mainly carbon and heavier elements, often chemically bound with hydrogen) has come from earlier stars that have forged them in their cores and then blasted them out into space at the end of the the stars lifetimes. Supernova and nova blasts as well as intense stellar winds are how the dust has been distributed. And there is way more dust here than would be required for just one planet. From today's explanation:

"A detailed study of NGC 3582, ... uncovered at least 33 massive stars in the end stages of formation..."

Since small stars like our Sun are far more numerous than the 33 massive stars mentioned above then it would be safe to assume that this picture would show many hundreds of stars if it weren’t for all the dust and gas which is obscuring their light. There must be enough dust here to form dozens or hundreds of entire solar systems, not just one measly planet.
Just as zero is not equal to infinity, everything coming from nothing is illogical.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by neufer » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:25 pm

Psnarf wrote:
I'm reminded of a Swiss study from the early 70's(?) which measured high concentrations of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (and lead) in snow deposited 1/4 mile on either side of high-traffic thoroughfares. The same chemicals in our ecosystem kills, yet are the source of life in the stellar medium? Probably accumulated by cigarette-smoking interplanetary barge drivers.
Unregulated cigarette-smoking interplanetary barge drivers.

Cancer is a broad group of various diseases, all involving unregulated cell growth (i.e., life as we know it).
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
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<<The St Pancras Cruising Club is not as interesting as it sounds. It's a place where people with canal barges moor them on a long-term basis, and it's where I've arranged to meet Jenny Jones, the Green party's candidate for mayor of London. [Jones has suggested such things as:] instead of building a multibillion-pound, high-speed rail link to Birmingham, the government should invest in high-performance alarm clocks for executives so they could catch their trains half an hour earlier. She and her partner are taking their barge – the Arthur Dent, named after the hero of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy – east along the Regent's Canal. A canal barge is very narrow, claustrophobic even, and it starts to resemble the crowded cabin in the Marx Brothers film A Night at the Opera.>>
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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:36 pm

Psnarf wrote:I'm reminded of a Swiss study from the early 70's(?) which measured high concentrations of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (and lead) in snow deposited 1/4 mile on either side of high-traffic thoroughfares, such as interstate highways and autobahns. Measured concentrations tapered off to relatively acceptable levels farther away from the highway within the 1/2mi corridors studied. What disturbs me is the conspicuous absence of any follow-up studies or media attention. The same chemicals in our ecosystem kills, yet are the source of life in the stellar medium? Probably accumulated by cigarette-smoking interplanetary barge drivers.
Excellent comment. We should consider all suggestions with a healthy dose of skepticism, seasoned with humor. :lol2:
Just as zero is not equal to infinity, everything coming from nothing is illogical.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by Chris Peterson » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:39 pm

Psnarf wrote:The same chemicals in our ecosystem kills, yet are the source of life in the stellar medium? Probably accumulated by cigarette-smoking interplanetary barge drivers.
Not uncommon. We totally depend on oxygen, yet it's a deadly poison to much life (and even to some of our own cells). A huge number of trace chemicals are essential to life at low concentrations, and deadly at somewhat higher ones. Things that are carcinogenic to higher life forms are food to bacteria.
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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by Boomer12k » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:21 pm

Spectacular view. I saw the standing Rat...looking at the star at the top...and the "dragon" head to me looks more like a Fox head...Or Rengi's Ban-Kai...Zabimaru...see pic..

The top loops remind me of Solar Prominences....of course they are not.

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Re: APOD: Star Forming Region NGC 3582 (2013 Jun 11)

Post by Cloudgazer » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:16 pm

It's all in the beholder's eye ... when it comes to "interpret" images such as the NGC 3582, I have a couple of suggestions: look at it again and maybe you see what I see, a) a Spanish Flamenco dancer in a turquoise outfit or b) an ancient Roman orator in his flowing robe holding up a scroll or similar. Is there anyone else who has "seen" this?
On the other hand, some other images remind me of open heart, lung or liver surgery, as in n2024_block 900, or
NGC1365, even arp142 could be a piece of some glandular tissue ... :?: