APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

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APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by APOD Robot » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:15 am

Image Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd Craters

Explanation: What lies at the bottom of Hyperion's strange craters? Nobody's sure. To help find out, the robot Cassini spacecraft now orbiting Saturn swooped past the sponge-textured moon in 2005 and 2010 and took images of unprecedented detail. An image from the 2005 pass, shown above in false color, shows a remarkable world strewn with strange craters and a generally odd surface. The slight differences in color likely show differences in surface composition. At the bottom of most craters lies some type of unknown dark material. Inspection of the image shows bright features indicating that the dark material might be only tens of meters thick in some places. Hyperion is about 250 kilometers across, rotates chaotically, and has a density so low that it might house a vast system of caverns inside.

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:21 am

I find that with this version, when it is viewed at its highest resolution, it is much easier to discern dark crater floors from shadows.
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Boomer12k » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:48 am

It is not consistent. It is not every crater. Even next to one that has this darkening. Even at different depths. On the upper left Using Geckzilla's large Wiki Image....from the top left corner of the image...come into Hyperion...the first dark area...is also colored...I see a sandy brown area...almost like a light rust....
It is almost like a liquid has been there, and stained the bottom of some of these craters. Some have it and some don't, even right next to one another.... Reminds me of throwing a rock down on beach sand...fairly close to the water....and lifting the rock...and there is dampness there....but this is out in space, and I don't think that is what is going on...but that is what it reminds me of....maybe some projectiles penetrated some layer of something, and punctured it....but then we do not see dark rays of ejected material...we see something like...."wet sand"....
OH....I wonder if it is like MARE on the Moon....after some bombardment...some heat moltened it up, and it darkened....but it is not consistent...even at the same levels...hmmmmm....

OK....I'm GAME....I'll go....I got nothing else to do....I do get the internet on the way there, right???? :D

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:56 am

It's difficult to tell how deep one crater or another is visually. The darkening can create an illusion of increased depth.
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by starchaser » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:49 am

APOD Robot wrote:...and has a density so low that it might house a vast system of caverns inside.
Boomer12k wrote:OK....I'm GAME....I'll go....I got nothing else to do....I do get the internet on the way there, right???? :D
Imagine caving on Hyperion! :shock:

EricsonEricson

Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by EricsonEricson » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:13 am

They are buckyballs.
They are created when electro-statically charged carbon is ejected into vacuum.
Also common on other moons. Where they flow cling and settle.
They are also a rich source of light weight impact resistant material for space travel.

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by neufer » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:20 am

Art Neuendorffer

Judy F

Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Judy F » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:30 pm

Barnacles!!!!
Actually, I find it resembles packed snow that has sublimated in below-freezing weather. Dark areas heat more quickly in the sun and sublimate away, leaving hollows like these. I see them every late winter/early spring. :mrgreen:

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Beyond » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:35 pm

I see the slight differences link is still 404.
As for Alf, his eyes remind me of the mysterious dark stuff. So he must be full-of-it. :mrgreen:
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Psnarf » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:29 pm

Resembles volcanic pumice or cinder ejecta. If so, the craters are popped gas bubbles. How to get volcanic ejecta that big and that high must have been a big badaboom, or perhaps an impact event.

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:34 pm

Obviously it's actually Dark Matter under "them there hills". Fits perfectly into a couple of prospects. It's a "Wimpy" moon that looks "Macho" How much more proof do you need?? :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by LocalColor » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Judy F wrote:Actually, I find it resembles packed snow that has sublimated in below-freezing weather. Dark areas heat more quickly in the sun and sublimate away, leaving hollows like these. I see them every late winter/early spring. :mrgreen:
We see the snow becoming "finned" and cratered like that when strong sun is refected off the dark barn wood.

Nic

Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Nic » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:20 pm

It is a ship, or at least might be made into one.

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Jack092251 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:29 pm

Looks like a comet skeleton, the large depression is a colllapse.

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by ta152h0 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:35 pm

ahh natures ugly duckling ....
Wolf Kotenberg

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by jlfonz1 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:34 pm

EricsonEricson wrote:They are buckyballs.
They are created when electro-statically charged carbon is ejected into vacuum.
Also common on other moons. Where they flow cling and settle.
They are also a rich source of light weight impact resistant material for space travel.
This is what I thought also. Wouldn't this make both a great source of material AND a space station? Develop a spray material that hardens and seal walls and floors creating various sized habitation areas that would take less time and effort to build since the cavities already exist. Only bulk heads would be needed at entrances and of course compartmentalize adjacent areas. I would be like an ant colony except we wouldn't have to excavate everything, we'd be using most of the existing environment.

How do we control it? Bringing it into a closer orbit, preferably Mars or something between Earth and Mars as a way station escapes me but I have a couple of ideas (far fetched of course) on how to control its rotation.
1) A solar sail connected to something like a locomotive on the surface with a nuclear power source riding a series of rails on the surface. This locomotive would use mag lev technologies as a frictionless brake. The sail could be shuttered when not in use. (hardest and probable least cost effective)
2) A series of non-linear magnetorquers placed below the surface around the moon. Based on the shape of Hyperion I would say five might be sufficient.

Plenty of power would be needed so each station would have redundant reactors and they should all be accessible to the surface via shafts. They should be created in a modular fashion so that they can be removed for rebuilding or repairing at another location or more importantly ejected in case of an emergency.

Don't forget a space elevator would be an option.

I enjoy dreaming.

creaturelover

Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by creaturelover » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:52 pm

I wonder if this could be biological in some way because it looks like coral to me.

Ericksonerickson

Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Ericksonerickson » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:53 pm

jlfonz1 wrote:
EricsonEricson wrote:They are buckyballs.
They are created when electro-statically charged carbon is ejected into vacuum.
Also common on other moons. Where they flow cling and settle.
They are also a rich source of light weight impact resistant material for space travel.
This is what I thought also. Wouldn't this make both a great source of material AND a space station? Develop a spray material that hardens and seal walls and floors creating various sized habitation areas that would take less time and effort to build since the cavities already exist. Only bulk heads would be needed at entrances and of course compartmentalize adjacent areas. I would be like an ant colony except we wouldn't have to excavate everything, we'd be using most of the existing environment.

How do we control it? Bringing it into a closer orbit, preferably Mars or something between Earth and Mars as a way station escapes me but I have a couple of ideas (far fetched of course) on how to control its rotation.
1) A solar sail connected to something like a locomotive on the surface with a nuclear power source riding a series of rails on the surface. This locomotive would use mag lev technologies as a frictionless brake. The sail could be shuttered when not in use. (hardest and probable least cost effective)
2) A series of non-linear magnetorquers placed below the surface around the moon. Based on the shape of Hyperion I would say five might be sufficient.

Plenty of power would be needed so each station would have redundant reactors and they should all be accessible to the surface via shafts. They should be created in a modular fashion so that they can be removed for rebuilding or repairing at another location or more importantly ejected in case of an emergency.

Don't forget a space elevator would be an option.

I enjoy dreaming.
No dream. Look at Iapetus, similar black stuff there too. Only more of it. Sure, melt plays a part, black does that. But what collects the way it does, unless they are little balls?
The 'blueberries' on Mars also collect the same way. There is a great satellite surface shot of them in the lowest parts of craters, caught in dips or streaming out on the windward side. Only rolling spheres do that.
There is plenty of evidence for carbon/methane/ethane geysering into space, at velocity you get charge. How to make Bucky balls is in Wikipaedia, check it out. Exactly the same story.

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:04 pm

I'm confused about the intent in linking "unknown dark material" in the caption to a paper about an Indian impact crater. The spectral data used in that paper was from an Earth orbiting instrument called Hyperion. Perhaps that led to some confusion? Nothing in the paper (which looks at the spectra of ejecta from an impact into basalt) seems relevant to the moon Hyperion.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:26 pm

EricsonEricson wrote:They are buckyballs.
Well, maybe. But I'm skeptical. C60 and C70 are readily and unambiguously detectable by their IR spectrum, in the 5-20 μm range, and Cassini carries an IR spectrometer that covers that range at high resolution. It's hard to believe that somebody hasn't directed it at the dark material in an effort to figure out what it might be. I don't see how they could have failed to detect fullerenes, but a quick search doesn't reveal any papers.

Your theory seems reasonable, and is testable. But where's the test?
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:37 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
EricsonEricson wrote:They are buckyballs.
Well, maybe. But I'm skeptical. C60 and C70 are readily and unambiguously detectable by their IR spectrum, in the 5-20 μm range, and Cassini carries an IR spectrometer that covers that range at high resolution. It's hard to believe that somebody hasn't directed it at the dark material in an effort to figure out what it might be. I don't see how they could have failed to detect fullerenes, but a quick search doesn't reveal any papers.

Your theory seems reasonable, and is testable. But where's the test?
Once upon a time I tried to use this search form and didn't get far. It helps if you start on the left side and select ISS
http://pds-imaging.jpl.nasa.gov/search/ ... uickSearch
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by Boomer12k » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:16 am

You don't think big, giant SPACE WORMS come out of those holes do you????? :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by stephen63 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:19 am

Carbon dioxide and organics.
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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by ta152h0 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:38 am

Mr Hawking did present a case for not inviting these unknows to come visit us
Wolf Kotenberg

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Re: APOD: Saturns Hyperion: A Moon with Odd... (2013 Jun 30)

Post by swimmerscott1956 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:51 am

I think it is a comet that was captured by Saturn's gravity, and has reached a thermodynamic state of equilibrium where no more outgassing is possible at this time. It looks just like pictures of the other comets from the last ten years or so.