APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
robgendler

Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by robgendler » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:57 pm

I only come here when I have an APOD (I'm sure you're glad about that) in order to answer any questions about the image. I would have been happy to answer any specific questions people had about the image but there were none. I did see some very good general questions and some very erudite discussion from Ann and others. I also saw "conehead" videos and a comment that the "first" thought someone had when viewing the image was about technology limitations....(maybe at least if it were the 2nd or 3rd thought..:-)). So excuse me for defending my image. Chris's comment is more clear now and I thank him for explaining. I've belonged to imaging forums for years and people who know me well know I'm happy to answer any questions and in fact I enjoy interacting with others starting out in astronomy or astrophotography. Believe me ...I am not a snob nor do I look down on the asterisk forum in any way. I started at the same place everyone else did. I can handle criticism well but I guess I just have a hard time with some of the silly posts. I'm just not used to that on other imaging forums where the tone is more serious I guess. Perhaps its because I've worked very hard to produce some of the images you discuss here that I'm a bit defensive. Anyway...that's all I have to say. If you want feel free to contact me at robgendler@att.net

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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by geckzilla » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:25 pm

Very few individuals on this forum are qualified to make criticism about an image short of liking it or disliking it so while the conversation often becomes about a particular object and what is interesting about it, sometimes it also deviates into some rather off topic subjects (sometimes really off topic...Art!) but Chris does know a lot about imaging. Beyond and Art are both just goofballs. :lol:

Anyway, I'm glad you cleared that up. It's definitely best not to take Asterisk too seriously.
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Beyond » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:38 pm

Wow! I'm in the same category as Art. I hope he doesn't feel too insulted. :mrgreen:
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by geckzilla » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:07 am

You are the pun goofball and he is the association goofball.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by neufer » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:21 am

geckzilla wrote:
robgendler wrote:
I only come here when I have an APOD (I'm sure you're glad about that) in order to answer any questions about the image. I would have been happy to answer any specific questions people had about the image but there were none. I did see some very good general questions and some very erudite discussion from Ann and others. I also saw "conehead" videos ... I am not a snob... but I guess I just have a hard time with some of the silly posts.
Very few individuals on this forum are qualified to make criticism about an image short of liking it or disliking it so while the conversation often becomes about a particular object and what is interesting about it, sometimes it also deviates into some rather off topic subjects (sometimes really off topic...Art!) but Chris does know a lot about imaging. Beyond and Art are both just goofballs. :lol:
  • Cymbeline Act 5, Scene 3
Second Captain: There was a fourth man, in a silly habit,
  • That gave the affront with them.
First Captain: So 'tis reported:
  • But none of 'em can be found.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silly, a. [OE. seely, sely, AS. slig, geslig, happy, good;
akin to OS. sālig, a, good, happy, D. zalig blessed]


1. Happy; fortunate; blessed. - Chaucer.

2. Harmless; innocent; inoffensive. - Chaucer.

3. Weak; helpless; frail. [Obs.]
  • The silly buckets on the deck
    That had so long remain’d,
    I dreamt that they were fill’d with dew
    And when I awoke it rain’d.
4. Rustic; plain; simple; humble.

5. Weak in intellect; destitute of ordinary strength of mind; foolish; witless; simple.

6. Proceeding from want of understanding or common judgment; characterized by weakness or folly; unwise; absurd; stupid; as, silly conduct; a silly question.
Syn. -- Simple; brainless; witless; shallow; foolish; unwise; indiscreet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Art Neuendorffer (currently in a witless protection program)

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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Beyond » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:54 am

Beyond wrote:Wow! I'm in the same category as Art. I hope he doesn't feel too insulted. :mrgreen:
Nope, he doesn't seem to be. But i didn't realize he was in a witless protection program. My wits have been down to half for a long time now, but seem to be holding steady, so i shouldn't need any program support for a long time.
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Roland

Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Roland » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:36 pm

zbvhs wrote:The Cone Nebula looks rather like the wake produced by a blunt body tearing through a tenuous gas at hypersonic speed.
I like this explaination. I've seen a lot of supersonic shock wave imagery and this fits right in there. This would mean the red star at the point if the cone is an intruder from outside the nebula. I wonder if it is on a collison course with any of the stars within the nebula?

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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:49 pm

Chris thank you for your very detailed excellent answer to my question. And thank you too for making it clear that you weren’t being critical of Rob Gendler’s superb skills as a composer of these images that all of us have enjoyed so much.

Rob, thank you also for your work and your explanation as to what went into producing it. I enjoyed the larger image that this APOD was cropped from just as much. And thank you too for accepting Chris’ explanation that he wasn’t being critical of you or your work, but of the limitations of present technology.
Just as zero is not equal to infinity, everything coming from nothing is illogical.

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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by neufer » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:07 pm

Roland wrote:
zbvhs wrote:
The Cone Nebula looks rather like the wake produced by a blunt body tearing through a tenuous gas at hypersonic speed.
I like this explaination. I've seen a lot of supersonic shock wave imagery and this fits right in there. This would mean the red star at the point if the cone is an intruder from outside the nebula. I wonder if it is on a collison course with any of the stars within the nebula?
http://academic.greensboroday.org/~regesterj/potl/Waves/Doppler/doppler.htm wrote: [img3="Schlieren images of various shapes inside a supersonic wind tunnel. These images were taken to study possible shapes of capsules for the Mercury space program. You might think a pointy object would be best for "cutting through the air", but there's a problem: pointy objects come into contact with the shock (like in the top-left picture), which is hot, causing damage to the object. If the object is blunt, however, the shock stands away from the object a little bit, causing less heat to be transferred. That's why the capsules used in the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs, and nuclear warheads on ICBMs are cone-shaped and re-enter the Earth's atmosphere blunt end first."]http://academic.greensboroday.org/~rege ... shapes.png[/img3]
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Ann » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:21 pm


Structures like the Cone Nebula are windblown. Hot stars like S Mon have tremendous winds, and star formation, too, causes outflows and jets.

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At the apex of the Cone Nebula

Post by neufer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:29 am

Ann wrote:
Structures like the Cone Nebula are windblown.

Hot stars like S Mon have tremendous winds,
and star formation, too, causes outflows and jets.
The Cone Nebula is NOT windblown by the distant but
very bright (magnitude 4.66) S Mon/15 Mon in today's APOD.

NOR is the Cone Nebula windblown by the apparently close
& moderately bright (magnitude 7.17) HD 47887 in today's APOD.

Rather, the Cone Nebula is windblown by
the close infrared bright star(s) just beyond HD 47887
( :arrow: with hexagonal diffraction spikes) only (clearly) visible
at the Cone Nebula apex in this Spitzer Space Telescope image.
Last edited by neufer on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Beyond » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:10 am

I take it you are referring the star below center, lower left, that has 6 pink spikes to it?
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by neufer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:36 am

Image
Beyond wrote:
I take it you are referring the star below center,
lower left, that has 6 pink spikes to it?
Yes... the star with 6 pink (infrared) diffraction spikes.

Possibly the star just above the star with 4 blue (visible) diffraction spikes. :arrow:
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Re: At the apex of the Cone Nebula

Post by Ann » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:01 am

neufer wrote:
Ann wrote:
Structures like the Cone Nebula are windblown.

Hot stars like S Mon have tremendous winds,
and star formation, too, causes outflows and jets.
The Cone Nebula is NOT windblown by the distant but
very bright (magnitude 4.66) S Mon/15 Mon in today's APOD.

NOR is the Cone Nebula windblown by the apparently close
& moderately bright (magnitude 7.17) HD 47887 in today's APOD.

Rather, the Cone Nebula is windblown by
the close infrared bright star(s) just beyond HD 47887
( :arrow: with hexagonal diffraction spikes) only (clearly) visible
at the Cone Nebula apex in this Spitzer Space Telescope image.
Note that I said that star formation also causes outflows and jets. The bright infrared source is clearly an example of star formation, a star that has not, at least, emerged from its natal cocoon.

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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Beyond » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:26 am

neufer wrote:Possibly the star just above the star with 4 blue (visible) diffraction spikes.
I don't see any blue stars with 4 spikes, only 6. But only one with 6 pink spikes, so that's gotta be the one.
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by neufer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:40 am

Beyond wrote:
neufer wrote:
Beyond wrote:
I take it you are referring the star below center,
lower left, that has 6 pink spikes to it?
Yes... the star with 6 pink (infrared) diffraction spikes.

Possibly the star just above the star with 4 blue (visible) diffraction spikes. :arrow:
I don't see any blue stars with 4 spikes, only 6.
But only one with 6 pink spikes, so that's gotta be the one.
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Beyond » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:02 pm

Geeze neufer, you keep showing that same picture with the 4 spiked blue star, but don't indicate where it is in the APOD picture, and i don't see it there. :?
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Re: At the apex of the Cone Nebula

Post by neufer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:02 pm

Ann wrote:
Ann wrote:
APOD Robot wrote:Image In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula

Explanation: Even though it points right at S Mon,
details of the origin of the mysterious geometric Cone Nebula, visible on the far left, remain a mystery.
Structures like the Cone Nebula are windblown.

Hot stars like S Mon have tremendous winds,
and star formation, too, causes outflows and jets.
Note that I said that star formation also causes outflows and jets.
The bright infrared source is clearly an example of star formation,
a star that has not, at least, emerged from its natal cocoon.
Both you & APOD left open the possibility that S Mon was responsible for the Cone Nebula.

I, myself, left open the possibility that a wave propagation of constant speed (e.g., a sound wave) was responsible.

We natives of the planet Remulak France found all that amusing. Mibs!
Last edited by neufer on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by neufer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:10 pm

Beyond wrote:
Geeze neufer, you keep showing that same picture with the 4 spiked blue star,
but don't indicate where it is in the APOD picture, and i don't see it there. :?
The APOD is rotated 90º so that it is just to the right of the 4 spiked blue star there.

(Just follow the cone sides with straight edges to their intersection.)
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Re: APOD: In the Vicinity of the Cone Nebula (2013 Aug 06)

Post by Beyond » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Goofball me, i was looking at the Spizter picture which has 6 spike stars, instead of the APOD one from Subaru, which has 4 spike stars. So i was trying to find the cone nebula in the wrong picture. Space is just tooo big to keep track of :!:
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