What is this object?

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Chris Peterson
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Re: What is this object?

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:33 pm

geckzilla wrote:Just a star which is noticeably brighter after four years have passed. There aren't a whole lot of images in the HLA which are exact repeats of filters and exposure times but this is one of them. I cleaned up a couple of cosmic rays so they wouldn't be distracting.
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
Unless you have more details on this star, it's probably safer to say that it happened to be brighter in the second image. It may well have gone through multiple cycles over the four years, so it's just chance it happened to be brighter. It could as easily have been dimmer.

In other words, odds are we are seeing a cyclical pattern here (which is impossible to quantify with just two images) and not a long term trend.
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geckzilla
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:44 pm

Right, I did leave my wording rather ambiguous. I'll update my description.
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rstevenson
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Re: What is this object?

Post by rstevenson » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:04 pm

geckzilla wrote:Just a star which is noticeably brighter after four years have passed. There aren't a whole lot of images in the HLA which are exact repeats of filters and exposure times but this is one of them. I cleaned up a couple of cosmic rays so they wouldn't be distracting.
The gas and dust making up the nebula is moving, of course. Perhaps the star's light output has remained constant while a thicker area of the nebula happened to be passing it by in 1995 and had moved on by 1999, so the star appeared brighter to us in the later photo. (This is assuming that the star in question is either behind or within the nebula. If it's in front, than my hypothesis is what a scientist would call wrong.)

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geckzilla
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:26 pm

The nebula is tenuous and smooth in that area. There's just no way it's anything other than variance in the brightness of the star itself.
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Re: What is this object?

Post by BMAONE23 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:12 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
geckzilla wrote:Just a star which is noticeably brighter after four years have passed. There aren't a whole lot of images in the HLA which are exact repeats of filters and exposure times but this is one of them. I cleaned up a couple of cosmic rays so they wouldn't be distracting.
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
Unless you have more details on this star, it's probably safer to say that it happened to be brighter in the second image. It may well have gone through multiple cycles over the four years, so it's just chance it happened to be brighter. It could as easily have been dimmer.

In other words, odds are we are seeing a cyclical pattern here (which is impossible to quantify with just two images) and not a long term trend.
The BLINK image that Geckzilla provided is really interesting. You can see the expansion of the denser part of the nebula toward the star at the 5:30 position. Also of note is the star at the 3:30 position. it is not only overtaken by the denser portion of the nebula but also appears to have visually moved toward the central star. Did it really move that distance in just 4 years?

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geckzilla
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:20 pm

Yes, things are really moving that much. The sky looks static unless you are looking at things really close. Suddenly there seems to be all sorts of things floating all over the place. For this I think the telescope might also be slightly off from one picture to another but some other stuff is definitely moving. It's kind of annoying but in a strange and somewhat delightful way to be trying to compose an image and think to myself "Ah damn, that star moved really far. ...Wait, that's actually awesome."
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Chris Peterson
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Re: What is this object?

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:33 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:The BLINK image that Geckzilla provided is really interesting. You can see the expansion of the denser part of the nebula toward the star at the 5:30 position. Also of note is the star at the 3:30 position. it is not only overtaken by the denser portion of the nebula but also appears to have visually moved toward the central star. Did it really move that distance in just 4 years?
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
Sure, it could move that far. How far do you think that actually is? I registered the images better, so you can better see what's moving. Not only is the nebula moving outward, but that particular star appears to also be moving slightly toward the nebula.
file1.jpg
file2a.jpg
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geckzilla
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 am

Weird nebula rapidly expanding around variable star V347 Nor. This paper states the rate of expansion is ~90km/s. This recent paper supposedly indicates that the object is not a planetary nebula, but I can't get past the pay wall. The two pictures are 3 years apart.
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
...
V347Nor_2004.jpg
V347Nor_2001.jpg
[/hide]
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Re: What is this object?

Post by neufer » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:48 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Weird nebula rapidly expanding around variable star V347 Nor. This paper states the rate of expansion is ~90km/s. This recent paper supposedly indicates that the object is not a planetary nebula, but I can't get past the pay wall. The two pictures are 3 years apart.
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
It looks like the Crab Nebula but that is expanding at about 1,000 km/s.
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Re: What is this object?

Post by owlice » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:10 pm

geckzilla wrote:Weird nebula rapidly expanding around variable star V347 Nor. This paper states the rate of expansion is ~90km/s. This recent paper supposedly indicates that the object is not a planetary nebula, but I can't get past the pay wall.
The pre-print is available as a PDF here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.2505
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geckzilla
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:44 pm

Oh, thanks, owlice!
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Re: What is this object?

Post by owlice » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:54 pm

You're welcome!
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Re: What is this object?

Post by BMAONE23 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:11 pm

geckzilla wrote:Weird nebula rapidly expanding around variable star V347 Nor. This paper states the rate of expansion is ~90km/s. This recent paper supposedly indicates that the object is not a planetary nebula, but I can't get past the pay wall. The two pictures are 3 years apart.
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
...
V347Nor_2004.jpg
V347Nor_2001.jpg
[/hide]
Wonderful,
Another Beautiful expanding nebula with yet another moving object?
There is a spot next to the star at 9:00 (left of the nebula) that moves right, to the edge of the nebula in the later image

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geckzilla
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:40 pm

Heh, yeah. Another tiny glowing fast fluffball.
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Re: What is this object?

Post by Beyond » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:00 pm

That tiny glowing fast fluffball is what i thought you were asking about. :lol2:
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:05 pm

I thought the nebula was more interesting. I didn't check the little dot. It could be an anomaly on Hubble's end of things. Or it might be some...thing.
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:59 pm

Two things in this picture:
1 What the heck is going on with that larger spiral galaxy in the lower left? It just looks odd to me and I can't exactly place why.
2 Maybe that is an Einstein cross in the upper right.
Abell2744_crop.jpg
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Re: What is this object?

Post by neufer » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:40 pm

geckzilla wrote:
What the heck is going on with that larger spiral galaxy in the lower left? It just looks odd to me and I can't exactly place why.
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php? ... 66#p213566
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Enck ... s_on_Earth
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Re: What is this object?

Post by geckzilla » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:38 pm

Catherine wheel is such an awful name.
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Re: What is this object?

Post by neufer » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:23 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Catherine wheel is such an awful name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel wrote:
<<The Catherine wheel was a torture device used for capital punishment in the Middle Ages and early modern times for public execution by bludgeoning to death. The wheel was typically a large wooden wagon wheel with many radial spokes. In some cases the condemned were lashed to the wheel and their limbs were beaten with a club or iron cudgel, with the gaps in the wheel allowing the limbs to give way. During the execution of Franz Seuboldt in Nuremberg on 22 September 1589, a wheel was used as a cudgel: the executioner used wooden blocks to raise Seuboldt's limbs, then broke them by slamming a wagon wheel down onto the limb.

Medieval hagiographies told that St Catherine of Alexandria was sentenced to be executed on one of these devices for refusing to renounce her Christian belief, which thereafter became known as the Catherine wheel. The wheel miraculously broke when she touched it; she was then beheaded. As an attribute it is usually shown broken in a small version beside her.

In English, the quotation "Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?" from Alexander Pope's "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" is occasionally seen, referring to putting great effort into achieving something minor or unimportant.>>
http://patrickgrant.com/main_events_news_2005.htm wrote:
Image
Alexander Pope's "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot"

Satire or sense, alas! can Sporus feel?
Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?
Yet let me flap this bug with gilded wings,
This painted child of dirt that stinks and stings;

Whose buzz the witty and the fair annoys,
Yet wit ne'er tastes, and beauty ne'r enjoys,
So well-bred spaniels civilly delight
In mumbling of the game they dare not bite.

Eternal smiles his emptiness betray,
As shallow streams run dimpling all the way.
Whether in florid impotence he speaks,
And, as the prompter breathes, the puppet squeaks...
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Re: What is this object?

Post by neufer » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:12 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
geckzilla wrote:
Two things in this picture:

1 What the heck is going on with that larger spiral galaxy in the lower left? It just looks odd to me and I can't exactly place why.

2 Maybe that is an Einstein cross in the upper right.
Abell2744_crop.jpg
Four words: Asymmetric Dark Matter Anomalies
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