Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

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Ann
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Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by Ann » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:29 pm

Astronomers have found the most Earth-like exoplanet ever, Kepler-78b.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013 ... -kepler78b wrote:

Scientists have found the most similar planet to Earth so far discovered, which is only a little bigger and seems to be made of very similar materials.

Describing the results in Nature, two independent teams of scientists found the planet has a diameter of 9,200 miles (around 1.2 times that of Earth), and contains a rocky interior and an iron core.
...
The total mass of Kepler-78b, which is 400 light years from Earth, was calculated as around 1.7 times that of Earth and its density is around 5.3g per cubic centimetre (slightly lower than Earth's 5.5g per cubic centimetre).
This makes Kepler-78b the most Earthlike planet found so far, except that it is hellishly hot. It orbits its sun in only 8.5 hours, leading to a surface temperature of more than 2,000C.

Read more here.

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This World is Doomed!

Post by BDanielMayfield » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:00 pm

Ann wrote:Read more here.
And more here as well.

From that Sky and Telescope newsblog I quote:
skyandtelescope.com/news/Charred-Earth wrote:At 1.2 Earth radii and just under 2 Earth masses, Kepler-78b might sound appealing — until you realize that it’s orbiting so close to its parent star that it’s three times hotter than Mercury’s dayside. It skims less than two stellar radii above its star’s visible surface, a distance smaller than one-hundredth Earth’s distance from the Sun’s photosphere. In fact, if it were a comet, Kepler-78b would classify as a sungrazer: it’s about as far from its star as Comet ISON will be when it zooms past the Sun at the end of November.
. . .
The density implies that Kepler-78b is made of rock and iron. How it got to its current position is unknown; it couldn’t have formed there, because the star was a little fatter in its infancy and would have filled the space in which the planet now orbits. One idea is that it might be the core of a disrupted gas giant. However the planet did it, it won’t stay there for long: the star’s gravity should rip the planet apart within a few billion years.

Even until then, the planet’s existence is a harrowing one. The star is a slightly smaller and cooler version of the Sun but much younger, at about 700 million years. Stars at this tender age are active (think tempestuous toddlers) and Kepler-78 is awash with starspots. The planet’s snug hug would make the world a prime target for coronal eruptions.”
So Kepler-78b is in all likelihood the remnant of a once larger planet that has spiraled in and had its outer layers baked and blasted off. It must suffer frequent encounters with nearly point blank coronal mass ejections and constant scouring by intense stellar winds. As it continues its gradual downward spiral it will get ever hotter, and tidal forces will finally stretch the tortured planet to the breaking point. The planet’s shattered, molten remains will orbit for a while but will spiral in too, being gasified and then ionized as they are absorbed by the star.

This planet has been called “hellish” because there are myths about hell as a fiery place of eternal torment for the damned. Now, contrary to what some may be thinking, I wasn’t trying to give any kind of a warning message to anyone by what I wrote in the last or in this paragraph, just to be clear. This is because I agree with modern scientific thinking that “hell”, as this word is commonly understood, is not a real place. But Kepler-78b is a real place, at least for now, and for “a few billion years” to come. But the destiny of this world did remind me of what is written at Revelation 20:14;
And death and Hades (or, hell, King James Version) were cast into the fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.


So Hades might be a very appropriate name for this newly discovered exoplanet, if it hasn’t already been used.

Yes world, this world (Kepler 78b) is doomed. It’s Doomed I say, DOOMED! (Scientifically speaking, that is.)

Bruce
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by geckzilla » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:30 pm

Bruce, until the Bible is popularly recognized as myth just as with Greek, Roman, or any other mythology out there, it's probably best to not constantly refer to it here, unless you want us to talk about it from a mythological standpoint.
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by Beyond » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:55 pm

IF the myth fiteth, speaketh it :?:
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by geckzilla » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:50 pm

That's the thing. The Bible isn't considered myth by most people. It's religious doctrine. It's very rare that it's relevant at an astronomy forum, especially one with rules against discussing religion.
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by Beyond » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:11 pm

Yeah, it's an unusual book, no matter how it's translated. Even though it contains facts, religions and a myriad of other things, people for the most part, just don't really know what to do with it. So for the purposes of this site, It's best to refer to other 'like' sites, that go better with the APODs. :yes:
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by BDanielMayfield » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:15 am

I don’t consider the Bible to be a myth, and I’m glad that many others still respect it too. I won’t explain myself any further here to remain within the forum’s rules.

Unless you count my “Happy are the peaceable …" motto I don’t “constantly refer" to the Bible. In my 280 something comments to date I have only made a small number of Biblical references, although by coincidence a few of these have been recent, so I can see how it could look like a warning was warranted. I will continue to use self-restraint in this regard, and if it will promote peace and happiness I’ll even go so far as to change my motto if that is desired.

I like this forum mainly for the wealth of factual astronomical science at hand, coming at a time when mankind’s ablities to perceive and understand the universe is rapidly improving. I like the interactions with other minds and the humor (Thank you Beyond, and many others.). While I love the Bible, my understanding of it is flexible enough to adapt to the discoveries of science, and I accept all that has been scientifically proven.

Some have suggested at times that I might consider joining other forums, but I have many of the same objections to most religions that atheists have. I’ve learned much from this forum’s members, and I hope to continue learning.

Bruce
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by geckzilla » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:18 am

Thanks for understanding.
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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by BDanielMayfield » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:29 pm

And thanks for your understanding, geckzilla.

Ok, to put this back onto real astronomy, I do have a real astronomy question here. What causes some planets to “spiral in” or have their orbits decay over time. I know the inner moon of Mars is destined to do this, but why might this have occured in Kepler 78b’s case?
Just as zero is not equal to infinity, everything coming from nothing is illogical.

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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by Ann » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:26 pm

Keith Cooper, ASTRONOMY NOW, wrote:

However, Kepler-78b could not have formed in its current location. In the past its star was larger and the planet would have actually been inside the star and incinerated. Therefore it must have moved into its orbit since then, but such a theory is not without its problems.

"It couldn't have formed in place because you can't form a planet inside a star," says Dimitar Sasselov who researches 'super-earth' planets at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "It couldn't have formed further out and migrated inward because it would have migrated all the way into the star. The planet is an enigma."
So astronomers appear to be stumped by this planet for now, but I'll bet they'll come up with a smart explanation for its peculiarities eventually! :D

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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by stephen63 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:59 am

BDanielMayfield wrote:And thanks for your understanding, geckzilla.

Ok, to put this back onto real astronomy, I do have a real astronomy question here. What causes some planets to “spiral in” or have their orbits decay over time. I know the inner moon of Mars is destined to do this, but why might this have occured in Kepler 78b’s case?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_migration

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Re: Most Earth-like exoplanet ever is hellishly hot

Post by BDanielMayfield » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:24 pm

(I wrote the following comment prior to seeing Stephen63’s posting. Thanks Stephen.)
Ann wrote:
Keith Cooper, ASTRONOMY NOW, wrote:
However, Kepler-78b could not have formed in its current location. In the past its star was larger and the planet would have actually been inside the star and incinerated. Therefore it must have moved into its orbit since then, but such a theory is not without its problems.

"It couldn't have formed in place because you can't form a planet inside a star," says Dimitar Sasselov who researches 'super-earth' planets at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "It couldn't have formed further out and migrated inward because it would have migrated all the way into the star. The planet is an enigma."
So astronomers appear to be stumped by this planet for now, but I'll bet they'll come up with a smart explanation for its peculiarities eventually! :D

Ann
Thanks Ann. I wouldn’t bet against you, if I were a gambler. I would rather wager that the solution to this paradox will be discovered quickly.

I went to sleep last night thinking about the contradictory statements in the last paragraph of your Astronomy Now quote:
"It couldn't have formed in place because you can't form a planet inside a star," and
"It couldn't have formed further out and migrated inward because it would have migrated all the way into the star."

The logic of the first statement is obvious, but the logic of the second is weaker. Since the first statement is true and both statements can’t be true the second statement must be false. But what did Sasselov mean by his latter statement? My guess would be that he was saying that, given the young age (7E5 years) of the system and the slow rate that the orbit decays the proto-planet would still have been too close to the proto-star at the time of the system’s formation.

IMO the solution to this enigma would have to include a non-linear aspect to the rate of Kepler-78b’s orbital decay. With this planet’s very small orbit it can’t be all that far from its Roche limit, and yet it is said that it still may have “a few billion years” before destruction. Therefore the present and future rate of orbital decay must be extremely slow. In the past however could it have been spiraling in at a much faster rate? This would have had to have been the case, would it not? Clearly the planet was formed at some distance from its star that was outside the zone in which planet formation is impossible, rather quickly moved into its present orbit, and will now slowly proceed toward destruction.

This leads back to my earlier question; What causes planets to sometimes “spiral in”? Whatever it is, it isn’t happening here in our system (thankfully). But whatever mechanism drives orbits to decay must be a non-liner function. It might also be very common, in view of all the systems being discovered with planets in “hot” orbits. Why do some planetary orbits shrink over time, while the orbits of the planets in our system remain stable?

P. S. I now look forward to reading Stephen's link.

Bruce
Just as zero is not equal to infinity, everything coming from nothing is illogical.

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Astrophile: Evil twin planet makes other Earths likely

Post by bystander » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:15 pm

Evil twin planet makes other Earths likely
New Scientist | Astrophile | Lisa Grossman | 2013 Oct 30

Object: Earth-sized exoplanet
Composition: Rock and iron
Temperature: Scorching

[attachment=0]Kepler-78b-1200300dpiRGB.jpg[/attachment]
Earth now has a twin – but it's evil. There's a planet the same size as Earth in a distant solar system, and it shares our planet's mass and composition. However, the rocky exoplanet is so close to its star that it orbits it once every 8 hours, making it hellishly hot, with almost no prospect of hosting life.

The planet, Kepler-78b, is not the first world to come within 20 per cent of Earth-like size or mass – those distinctions go to Kepler-10b and MOA-2007-BLG-192-L b, respectively.

It's not even the first to claim a rocky make-up, a title that went to COROT-7b in 2009. Kepler-10b is also thought to be rocky. But it is the first to have all three characteristics at once, and raises astronomers' hopes that life-friendly Earth twins are out there.

"This is an existence proof," says Andrew Howard of the University of Hawaii in Honolulu. "When you have one, you know that Nature can make Earth-sized rocky planets outside of the solar system."

Tiny wobbles

As its name suggests, Kepler-78b was first spotted by the now-defunct Kepler space telescope, which spent 3.5 years watching stars for regular dips in brightness, called transits, characteristic of a planet crossing in front of them. That revealed the planet's sizes. The more starlight it blocked, the bigger the planet.

But it gave no direct hint of any given planet's mass, and therefore the planet's density, a clue to composition.

The most successful technique so far for measuring planet masses is by watching the star for the tiny wobbles the planet's gravity induces. The larger and closer a planet is to its star, the bigger the wobble. Earth-mass planets are tiny enough that they would be difficult to detect unless they were close.

When Kepler-78b was discovered with an 8 hour year, two teams jumped at the chance to measure its mass. "Everybody instantly knew this was our one great shot," Howard says.

Iron and rock

Howard's team used the Keck telescope in Hawaii to observe the star. At the same time, a team led by Francesco Pepe of the University of Geneva in Switzerland used the HARPS-N telescope on Spain's La Palma Island.

Howard's team now reports that the planet has a radius of 1.2 Earths and a mass of 1.69 Earths. Pepe's team calculates a radius of 1.16 Earths and a mass of 1.86 Earths. Both give bulk densities of roughly 5.5 grams per cubic centimetre, which is similar to that of Earth and implies a composition of iron and rock.

Unfortunately, it's so hot that much of that rock is probably molten. And it's going to be difficult to extend this technique to finding cooler, more comfortable Earth twins – because of their distance from their host star.

Ongoing mystery

"We didn't find a shortcut to Earth-sized planets in the habitable zone," Howard says. "It's going to require a new generation of ultra-stable spectrographs, probably on the world's biggest telescopes."

But Kepler-78b also poses a more immediate mystery: why does the planet exist at all? When the planetary system was forming, its young star was bigger than it is now, and would have engulfed Kepler-78b at its current orbit. That means the planet must have formed further away and travelled in towards the star since then. But if that is the case then it should have fallen all the way in by now.

In any case, the planet's prognosis doesn't look good: theorists predicts that within 3 billion years, gravity will make Kepler-78b spiral into its star and be ripped to shreds.

A rocky composition for an Earth-sized exoplanet - Andrew W. Howard et al An Earth-sized planet with an Earth-like density - Francesco Pepe et al
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?t=32009#p207464
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?t=32409#p212857

<< Previous Astrophile

Scientists Find Earth-Sized Rocky Exoplanet
Institute for Astronomy | University of Hawaii | 2013 Oct 30

First Earth-Sized, Rocky Exoplanet Found
W.M. Keck Observatory | 2013 Oct 30

Mystery World Baffles Astronomers
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics | 2013 Oct 30

Researchers discover that an exoplanet is Earth-like in mass and size
Massachusetts Institute of Technology | 2013 Oct 30

New Earth-sized exoplanet that ‘shouldn’t exist’ baffles astronomers
Science & Technology Facilities Council UK | 2013 Oct 30
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