[old] APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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BMAONE23
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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by BMAONE23 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:27 am

avdhoeven wrote:I'm flabbergasted about the fact that the clouds didn't move in 9 years between 2007 and 2016. That's really shaking up all knowledge about the Martian atmosphere, isn't it?

See this animation where I put the map from the video over the 2007 Space Telescope surface map.

mars_animate.gif
I tend to agree with your observation regarding the clouds (white patches) in the southern hemisphere and the notable ones in the equatorial region. Month by month they appear to be highly localized, stable and unmoving

iagobado

Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by iagobado » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:13 am

astrokraai wrote:
iagobado wrote:Hi to all,
[..]Second, I know Jesus just sent a e-mail with some info (including a dropbox public folder with a video), to Robert Nemirof, I think Robert is the guy that manage this forum, i'm sure he'll post it asap, anyway, you can see the info Jesus posted in our "marginal forum" in this thread, in the second page, hope you all could access the info, and check whatever you need.

http://www.astronomo.org/foro/index.php?topic=22214.30
I downloaded the raw data (1200 frames, 10 seconds), processed his recording, and compared it to what he got out of the full recording. As expected, his processing is not at all comparable to what one can expect from the raw data. No matter how many minutes of data you add together, the resolving power of a telescope doesn't all of a sudden approach that of a 2.5 meter telescope in space. The evidence continues to be overwhelming.

And I'm done now by the way, have a good day all and enjoy the skies above.
Hi Again,

I processed the video too, I think has a litle bit more detail than yours (sorry if its a piece of shit, I'm a visual, not an astrophotographer), but i still tried to do as friends show me, first i used pipp, later AS2, i used 75% i think perhaps with others i'll take more, Registax, FistWork4 and finally winjupos, and it looks a litle bit better, (if i can do this with 10 seconds imagine Jesús with 15000 frames).

I'm not sure but i think that this is the ir channel, so imagine, 15000 frames, four videos R,G,B and IR.

this is my result https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OwkP ... 2241_0.png

BR,

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:25 am

iagobado wrote:(if i can do this with 10 seconds imagine Jesús with 15000 frames)
15, 150, 1500, 15000 frames... it doesn't matter. Unless Jesús is a time-traveler and took a large ground-based observatory with some adaptive optics with him back in time, there is no way he acquired all this data on his own.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by caliu » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:40 am

The author himself says: APOD is not a competition, it is a place to disseminate and share scientific knowledge, whether such knowledge is distortive, are no longer valid, does not serve science with lies and falsehoods.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by alcarreño » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:50 am

caliu wrote:The author himself says: APOD is not a competition, it is a place to disseminate and share scientific knowledge, whether such knowledge is distortive, are no longer valid, does not serve science with lies and falsehoods.
Totally agree.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by astrokraai » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:42 am

iagobado wrote: I processed the video too, I think has a litle bit more detail than yours (sorry if its a piece of shit, I'm a visual, not an astrophotographer), but i still tried to do as friends show me, first i used pipp, later AS2, i used 75% i think perhaps with others i'll take more, Registax, FistWork4 and finally winjupos, and it looks a litle bit better, (if i can do this with 10 seconds imagine Jesús with 15000 frames).

BR,
Your processing is much more smooth for sure, but I deliberately processed the image without any fancy methods. I could have made the image look more "pretty", but it is better to show the scale of the details, and this can get easily lost if you use for example noise reduction techniques (which often makes real contrasts appear to be smaller than they are, and can make noise look like details). Yes there is a lot of noise in my 'processing', but it is in a sense more close to showing the resolution that is possible.

So getting 10 times more data like this will not increase the resolution by much (a tiny bit, because you will be able to capture on average by chance better seeing conditions) but mostly it will just give a better signal to noise ratio, meaning that fainter (but NOT smaller) contrasts can show up. The resolution you can get is - of course - still limited by what your optical system can actually resolve. Stacking a 1 billion images is simply not going to change that. Size matters, that is one of the reasons why Hubble can capture such fine details.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:53 pm

I am sorry but this guy is one big fraud! He even plagiarized my Jupiter image!

http://astro.christone.net/jfake.jpg

My image!

http://astro.christone.net/jcgo.jpg

This basically calls into question his credibility.

Chris Go
Last edited by chrisgo on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:45 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:56 pm

At least he helped you find Callisto, Chris. What a pal. :)
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:10 pm

geckzilla: We have different time zone. I live in the Philippines while he lives in Madrid. In my time zone, Callisto was not visible. He added the FAKED Callisto image to his image. The image is suppose to be around 10 hrs apart but all the cloud details of the images are the same! He even copied my artifacts and distortions!

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:14 pm

Sorry, I really thought the sarcasm would have been perceived, there. My bad. I was joking.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by neufer » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:53 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Sorry, I really thought the sarcasm would have been perceived, there. My bad. I was joking.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/politics/donald-trump-obama-clinton-isis-founder-sarcasm/ wrote:
Trump tweeted Friday morning that the media was missing his sarcasm.

"Ratings challenged @CNN reports so seriously that I call President Obama
(and Clinton) "the founder" of ISIS, & MVP. THEY DON'T GET SARCASM?"
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:37 pm

I don't think Trump ever said "sorry" at any point in his life, though. At least, not in a way to accept responsibility for any wrongdoing.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by David_Forteza » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:41 pm

chrisgo wrote:I am sorry but this guy is one big fraud! He even plagiarized my Jupiter image!

http://astro.christone.net/jfake.jpg

My image!

http://astro.christone.net/jcgo.jpg

This basically calls into question his credibility. He even has a sponsorship for his work with a telescope dealer! So this is all about money?

Chris Go
Obviously this parce just the tip of the iceberg.
This type of people is increasingly common among us unfortunately.
Here in my country (Spain), which we complaints against these people, we have a bad reputation.
Unfortunately, the current amateur in my country likes to be fooled and farces.
You can put appropriate tests that you may believe that their cyber-friends will defend him to the end, will not see the evidence.

Sorry, google translator of Spanish angry with these people.
This hobby / passion is not what it was thanks to them, and I doubt that it again be.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by andyc » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:48 pm

Apart from some of the clear examples above that these images are heavily augmented (fake), I have my own evidence to add. avdhoeven's blink of 2007 Mars weather being identical in important respects to that in the video, and the weather allegedly not changing over the 2016 season is ultimate proof that it's a straight up fake. Weather and clouds on Mars change almost every night, and the semi-persistent clouds (polar hoods, Hellas etc) change quite markedly through a Mars apparition. Earlier this year, as often happens in late Martian southern winter, there were substantial bright clouds in the Hellas Basin. They are not present in Santos' alleged April image. The North Polar cap was tiny and mostly cloud-free through April to June, and is only now picking up a little thin cloud thickening to a polar hood as we head into Martian northern winter.

You could call it a representation of how Mars might change through the year, using a single planetary image map (basically no changes, so it's not a real documentation of the seasons)... but unless he took the data in 2007 with resolution superior to the very best imagers like Chris Go and Damian Peach, on the same day that Hubble also made a planetary map... ah, then he's also calling it 2016... it's not exactly plausible stuff, is it!

If you'd like to see a real compilation of Mars through this season, http://www.pbase.com/andycasely/image/1 ... 3/original all taken with a 200mm Newtonian, you can see if Santos' images stand up to scrutiny. Can you see any of the transient or persistent weather features of this year in Santos' video? Chris Go won't be afraid I've stolen his images, but they are at least a real compilation of images taken through this Martian season (from 34 deg S latitude).

I call fake, and feel sorry for Chris Go and the professional & amateur imagers who are sullied by this kind of deception, and for those who get attacked for calling out the frauds too.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:07 am

andyc wrote:I call fake, and feel sorry for Chris Go and the professional & amateur imagers who are sullied by this kind of deception, and for those who get attacked for calling out the frauds too.
No imagers have been sullied because somebody chose to fake an image, except for the guy who made the fake.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:13 am

Actually it is easy to prove a fake. You don't even need to upload a video. I challenge this guy to post his RAW TIF image. The image you get after Autostakkert w/o applying wavelets. This is the true test of authenticity. I will explain to you how this challenge works after he post his RAW image.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:20 am

iagobado. Do you want to see true lies. Try to apply wavelets to the Mars png image you posted in the link.. It is quite revealing!

Image

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by andyc » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:27 am

Chris Peterson - OK - not the best choice of word there, but these fakes affect the community, how it's perceived and makes it harder for people to appreciate the quality of the true best imagers.

Chris Go - I'll be interested to see how that challenge goes, am always likely to learn something new from you on imaginig!

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:53 am

This guy actually manufactured his own video! This guys should own up his mistake and apologize to the the community. I don't understand why he keeps on defending the undefendable. Does he really think we are that dumb! If you want to see the real deal, here is one of my raw data. Now try to apply wavelets and see what happens!

http://astro.christone.net/jsample.zip

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:21 am

Chris Peterson- You can actually see from the images above what the wavelet challenge is all about. A true image will get sharper once you apply wavelets. A fake image will get distorted when you apply wavelets. That is why I posted a sample image above so people will see the difference. This is something one cannot reverse engineer! This challenge is very unforgiving... :)

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:43 am

chrisgo wrote:Chris Peterson- You can actually see from the images above what the wavelet challenge is all about. A true image will get sharper once you apply wavelets. A fake image will get distorted when you apply wavelets. That is why I posted a sample image above so people will see the difference. This is something one cannot reverse engineer! This challenge is very unforgiving... :)
Well, yes. I understand the processing and what it's showing. Not sure why you're directing your comment at me, however.
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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by astrometbcn » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:16 am

Definitivamente es un fraude y ahora solo falta que Jesus reconozca sus errores...
Bufot wrote: I have to point that as a moderator, I can't and I should NOT check or analyze opinions nor the results of our members, nothing but their attitude. Jesús always share his photos, comments, opinions or knowledge in a nicely and humility manner.
Si como dice el moderador de ese foro, donde ha venido publicando sus trabajos, Jesus es una persona sincera y humilde, no deberia tardar en reconocerlo, salvo que tambien te haya engañado en eso Mr Bufot........

Desde aqui y ahora pido publicamente que se quite el APOD y agradezco a todos los profesionales que con su buen trabjo han descubierto este nuevo fraude.

Gracias

-------------------------

It is definitely a fraud and now we just need to recognize their mistakes Jesus......
Bufot wrote: I have to point that as a moderator, I can't and I should NOT check or analyze opinions nor the results of our members, nothing but their attitude. Jesús always share his photos, comments, opinions or knowledge in a nicely and humility manner.
If, as the moderator of the forum , which has been publishing his works, says Jesus is a sincere and humble person , it should not take to recognize , unless we also think fool with that...........

From here and now I ask publicly that remove the APOD and I thank all professionals with their good work have discovered this new fraud

Tanks

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by Ann » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:24 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
chrisgo wrote:Chris Peterson- You can actually see from the images above what the wavelet challenge is all about. A true image will get sharper once you apply wavelets. A fake image will get distorted when you apply wavelets. That is why I posted a sample image above so people will see the difference. This is something one cannot reverse engineer! This challenge is very unforgiving... :)
Well, yes. I understand the processing and what it's showing. Not sure why you're directing your comment at me, however.
Chris is not in any way responsible for the Mars animation in question. He is not the editor of APOD. He doesn't get to pick any images. He isn't being asked about the suitability of the chosen pictures beforehand. He has no say in the matter.

What Chris has done, as far as I can understand, is that he has defended the underlying scientific facts about Mars that the problematic animation shows us: the general "wobbliness" of Mars, as well as the "gibbous" aspect of Mars as seen from the Earth.

I don't think Chris has defended the way the author of the animation has stolen other people's work without giving them credit, or put together two images showing the same instant in time and claimed that they represent two different instants in time. In fact, I think Chris has been quite critical of this.

If you are going to say that the animation has been created in a way that is dishonest, yes, you are right. If you are going to say that other people's work has been stolen without their consent and without them being credited for their original images, yes, that's true.

And that is bad. And wrong.

But no one has any right to be angry at Chris Peterson for defending the underlying science of this very problematic APOD.

Ann
Last edited by Ann on Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by chrisgo » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:50 am

Ok guys. I got a message from the wife of the faker. She is accusing me of stealing the image of Jesus and making it my own. They want to sue me for destroying his reputation... Doesn't he realize that I have my raw data!

Creo que tus acusadociones son denunciables basta ya de atacar a la gente
Todo lo que estás escribiendo sobre Jesús con tus mentiras te llegarán deja de hacer comentarios que son denunciables el único que roba las fotos eres tú. Intenta ser feliz y deja a los demás que lo seamos con nuestra afición
Last edited by chrisgo on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: Mars at Closest Approach 2016 (2016 Aug 09)

Post by astrometbcn » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:01 am

Please remove that APOD and we finish!!!!!