APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

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APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:05 am

Image Andromeda before Photoshop

Explanation: What does the Andromeda galaxy really look like? The featured image shows how our Milky Way Galaxy's closest major galactic neighbor really appears in a long exposure through Earth's busy skies and with a digital camera that introduces normal imperfections. The picture is a stack of 223 images, each a 300 second exposure, taken from a garden observatory in Portugal over the past year. Obvious image deficiencies include bright parallel airplane trails, long and continuous satellite trails, short cosmic ray streaks, and bad pixels. These imperfections were actually not removed with Photoshop specifically, but rather greatly reduced with a series of computer software packages that included Astro Pixel Processor, DeepSkyStacker, and PixInsight. All of this work was done not to deceive you with a digital fantasy that has little to do with the real likeness of the Andromeda galaxy (M31), but to minimize Earthly artifacts that have nothing to do with the distant galaxy and so better recreate what M31 really does look like.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by saturno2 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:33 am

I like me M31 in full color !!

Alex_g444

Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Alex_g444 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:39 am

It looks like some stars have disappeared in the process.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Ann » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:24 am

The Andromeda Galaxy. Photo: Josh Blash(?)
I like the photo at left. The pale yellowish color is just the way I remember it from the time when I first saw M31, back in 1972(?) on a cold February evening in my parents' back yard.

Of course, I didn't see even a trace of the disk of Andromeda.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by keesscherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:14 am

Alex_g444 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:39 am
It looks like some stars have disappeared in the process.
No, nothing was changed, this is the raw stack, the histogram is stretched with everything in it without any editing. There is also a "mouse over" function to show a version with all trails and tracks removed with LN Winsor Sigma clipping in Astropixelprocessor.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by keesscherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:38 am

The 223 Luminance images with 300 second exposure where made between 12 nov 2018 and 4 oct 2019. I make around 12 images per night when there is no Moon above the horizon and M31 is at least at 30 degrees altitude. For each night i make a stack and use that stack to do a blink comparison with a reference stack to find novae in M31. And so after a while you end up with a lot of subs and every now and then i make a stack with all the collected subs. To find Asteroids i also make stacks without "sigma clipping". The Asteroid will show up as a short line, there is 1 in the middle top in this image, just below the letter "c" of "October". It is Asteroid 334168 ST119 imaged on 4 october 2019 (6.3km diameter, magnitude 20.8). The image featured here showed a nice airplane/ Satellite trail frame around M31.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by keesscherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:48 am

saturno2 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:33 am
I like me M31 in full color !!
Me too ;-) I also made full color versions, here is an example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kees-scherer/30243178338/.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:46 am

I like the photo after photoshop! Nice 8-)
Orin

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by De58te » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:22 pm

Hi Kees. Nice photo. About the disappearing "stars". I noticed by flipping between the regular photo and the "annotated" photo that there are about seven or eight "stars" that vanish, and they are all in a straight line parallel to the lines on the left. Also most appear to be the same, a bright point of light with a dimmer companion on the left. They may be the same object. However with an exposure time of five minutes they likely aren't planes, but more distant Earth objects. Could they be artificial satellites or even a passing asteroid?

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by keesscherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:43 pm

M31-blink-plane2.jpg
De58te wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:22 pm
Hi Kees. Nice photo. About the disappearing "stars". I noticed by flipping between the regular photo and the "annotated" photo that there are about seven or eight "stars" that vanish, and they are all in a straight line parallel to the lines on the left. Also most appear to be the same, a bright point of light with a dimmer companion on the left. They may be the same object. However with an exposure time of five minutes they likely aren't planes, but more distant Earth objects. Could they be artificial satellites or even a passing asteroid?
They are the flashing lights of the airplane, that is why they have disappeared in the final image. They appear only on 1 subframe and will be removed by the outlier rejection.
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Last edited by keesscherer on Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by E Fish » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 pm

It seems to me that the central bulge gets brighter in the after image and the disk is more defined. Did you also remove atmospheric distortions?

GeoX

Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by GeoX » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:17 pm

Silly question I guess but are we looking at the “top” of the galaxy or the “bottom”?

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by keesscherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:21 pm

E Fish wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 pm
It seems to me that the central bulge gets brighter in the after image and the disk is more defined. Did you also remove atmospheric distortions?
The "before" and "after" images are made with the same data, but both have to be stretched so that the histogram fits the brightness levels from 0 to 1.
An unstretched image looks like the one attached, only the core of M31 is visible, the rest is way too dark.
M31-unstretched.jpg
The levels in both images are different to begin with including background level. With both histrogram stretches i have tried to make the backgroundlevels equal as much as possible so "the mouse over" would not flicker too much. I did not match all the other levels as i wanted to keep the processing to a minimum.
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Estuarto

Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Estuarto » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:46 pm

Nice image. I would enjoy seeing many other pictures of far distant objects with the foreground starts from within the Milky Way Galaxy removed, too.

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:53 pm

GeoX wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:17 pm
Silly question I guess but are we looking at the “top” of the galaxy or the “bottom”?
Galaxies don't have "tops" and "bottoms".
Chris

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Ann » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:13 pm

keesscherer wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:21 pm
E Fish wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 pm
It seems to me that the central bulge gets brighter in the after image and the disk is more defined. Did you also remove atmospheric distortions?
The "before" and "after" images are made with the same data, but both have to be stretched so that the histogram fits the brightness levels from 0 to 1.
An unstretched image looks like the one attached, only the core of M31 is visible, the rest is way too dark.
M31-unstretched.jpgThe levels in both images are different to begin with including background level. With both histrogram stretches i have tried to make the backgroundlevels equal as much as possible so "the mouse over" would not flicker too much. I did not match all the other levels as i wanted to keep the processing to a minimum.
I love it! That's exactly what M31 looked to me back in 1972(?), except that the core of the galaxy was yellowish! :D

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 pm

Ann wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:13 pm
keesscherer wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:21 pm
E Fish wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 pm
It seems to me that the central bulge gets brighter in the after image and the disk is more defined. Did you also remove atmospheric distortions?
The "before" and "after" images are made with the same data, but both have to be stretched so that the histogram fits the brightness levels from 0 to 1.
An unstretched image looks like the one attached, only the core of M31 is visible, the rest is way too dark.
M31-unstretched.jpgThe levels in both images are different to begin with including background level. With both histrogram stretches i have tried to make the backgroundlevels equal as much as possible so "the mouse over" would not flicker too much. I did not match all the other levels as i wanted to keep the processing to a minimum.
I love it! That's exactly what M31 looked to me back in 1972(?), except that the core of the galaxy was yellowish! :D
Telescopically, the core of M31 isn't bright enough to stimulate color vision. So your impression of color was coming from your brain, not from the galaxy.
Chris

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Galaxies before & after Skyliners

Post by neufer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:35 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:53 pm
GeoX wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:17 pm

Silly question I guess but
are we looking at the “top” of the galaxy or the “bottom”?
Galaxies don't have "tops" and "bottoms".
:arrow: While some Galaxies hide their "tops" in their "trunks".

(Perhaps GeoX is asking whether M31 is rotating clockwise
or counterclockwise [top-wise?] from our vantage point.)
Last edited by neufer on Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Ann » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:40 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 pm
Ann wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:13 pm
keesscherer wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:21 pm


The "before" and "after" images are made with the same data, but both have to be stretched so that the histogram fits the brightness levels from 0 to 1.
An unstretched image looks like the one attached, only the core of M31 is visible, the rest is way too dark.
M31-unstretched.jpgThe levels in both images are different to begin with including background level. With both histrogram stretches i have tried to make the backgroundlevels equal as much as possible so "the mouse over" would not flicker too much. I did not match all the other levels as i wanted to keep the processing to a minimum.
I love it! That's exactly what M31 looked to me back in 1972(?), except that the core of the galaxy was yellowish! :D
Telescopically, the core of M31 isn't bright enough to stimulate color vision. So your impression of color was coming from your brain, not from the galaxy.
All I can say is that I had no expectations whatsoever as to what Andromeda would look like. I was startled and delighted by the pale yellowish color. Not that I wouldn't have loved it even better if the color had been blue, but my point is, I didn't expect any color but I did see it. And I didn't know back then that galaxies typically have yellow cores.

You say I didn't see the yellow color of the center of Andromeda. I say I did. :wink:

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:41 pm

Ann wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 pm
Ann wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:13 pm


I love it! That's exactly what M31 looked to me back in 1972(?), except that the core of the galaxy was yellowish! :D
Telescopically, the core of M31 isn't bright enough to stimulate color vision. So your impression of color was coming from your brain, not from the galaxy.
All I can say is that I had no expectations whatsoever as to what Andromeda would look like. I was startled and delighted by the pale yellowish color. Not that I wouldn't have loved it even better if the color had been blue, but my point is, I didn't expect any color but I did see it. And I didn't know back then that galaxies typically have yellow cores.

You say I didn't see the yellow color of the center of Andromeda. I say I did. :wink:
I suspect you have atypical color vision.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by neufer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:38 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:41 pm
Ann wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 pm

Telescopically, the core of M31 isn't bright enough to stimulate color vision. So your impression of color was coming from your brain, not from the galaxy.
All I can say is that I had no expectations whatsoever as to what Andromeda would look like. I was startled and delighted by the pale yellowish color. Not that I wouldn't have loved it even better if the color had been blue, but my point is, I didn't expect any color but I did see it. And I didn't know back then that galaxies typically have yellow cores. You say I didn't see the yellow color of the center of Andromeda. I say I did. :wink:
I suspect you have atypical color vision.
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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by MarkBour » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:58 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:41 pm
Ann wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 pm


Telescopically, the core of M31 isn't bright enough to stimulate color vision. So your impression of color was coming from your brain, not from the galaxy.
All I can say is that I had no expectations whatsoever as to what Andromeda would look like. I was startled and delighted by the pale yellowish color. Not that I wouldn't have loved it even better if the color had been blue, but my point is, I didn't expect any color but I did see it. And I didn't know back then that galaxies typically have yellow cores.

You say I didn't see the yellow color of the center of Andromeda. I say I did. :wink:
I suspect you have atypical color vision.
I'm just glad that as a child, your reaction to the backyard viewing of Andromeda through a small telescope was one of wonder and careful observation, as opposed to "Mom[Dad], it's too cold out here. I want to go inside." :-)
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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by MarkBour » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:17 pm

keesscherer wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:38 am
The 223 Luminance images with 300 second exposure where made between 12 nov 2018 and 4 oct 2019. I make around 12 images per night when there is no Moon above the horizon and M31 is at least at 30 degrees altitude. For each night i make a stack and use that stack to do a blink comparison with a reference stack to find novae in M31. And so after a while you end up with a lot of subs and every now and then i make a stack with all the collected subs. To find Asteroids i also make stacks without "sigma clipping". The Asteroid will show up as a short line, there is 1 in the middle top in this image, just below the letter "c" of "October". It is Asteroid 334168 ST119 imaged on 4 october 2019 (6.3km diameter, magnitude 20.8). The image featured here showed a nice airplane/ Satellite trail frame around M31.
I really like this APOD! Shows a little of what's involved. And it's especially nice that Kees is answering questions here. Thanks for explaining and pointing out that asteroid line. If you go further to the right, still very near the top of the image, there is another, longer, line segment, but it bulges in the middle and both tails are fine points. I'm guessing that was a meteor, is that right?
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Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by keesscherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:53 pm

MarkBour wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:17 pm
keesscherer wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:38 am
The 223 Luminance images with 300 second exposure where made between 12 nov 2018 and 4 oct 2019. I make around 12 images per night when there is no Moon above the horizon and M31 is at least at 30 degrees altitude. For each night i make a stack and use that stack to do a blink comparison with a reference stack to find novae in M31. And so after a while you end up with a lot of subs and every now and then i make a stack with all the collected subs. To find Asteroids i also make stacks without "sigma clipping". The Asteroid will show up as a short line, there is 1 in the middle top in this image, just below the letter "c" of "October". It is Asteroid 334168 ST119 imaged on 4 october 2019 (6.3km diameter, magnitude 20.8). The image featured here showed a nice airplane/ Satellite trail frame around M31.
I really like this APOD! Shows a little of what's involved. And it's especially nice that Kees is answering questions here. Thanks for explaining and pointing out that asteroid line. If you go further to the right, still very near the top of the image, there is another, longer, line segment, but it bulges in the middle and both tails are fine points. I'm guessing that was a meteor, is that right?
Thank you! That trail is a tumbling upper rocket stage or tumbling satellite. There are more of these trails in the image and when you zoom out you will see that they are brightening and fading.

MajorOz

Re: APOD: Andromeda before Photoshop (2019 Oct 14)

Post by MajorOz » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:34 pm

Thank you. It is nice, sometimes to see what we would see.