The only colour that's not in the legend is dark brown ... what cosmic process is responsible for Tc, Po, At, etc.?
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:45 am
by heehaw
How appropriate that my gold wedding ring was made in merging neutron stars!
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:36 am
by saturnine
David G wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:13 am
The only colour that's not in the legend is dark brown ... what cosmic process is responsible for Tc, Po, At, etc.?
I'm guessing none. I think these all have half lives that are too short for there to be any left over that have originate from cosmic processes. Anything naturally occurring now would be from recent radioactive decay of other elements.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:40 am
by De58te
Just a thought provoking question. If purple elements like Iodine and Iridium were only made in merging neutron stars which are so dense that only light can escape, then how did the iridium get to Earth? There aren't too many neutron stars in the Solar System that ancient human miners cold mine.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:24 pm
by neufer
De58te wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:40 am
If purple elements like Iodine and Iridium were only made in merging neutron stars which are so dense that only light can escape, then how did the iridium get to Earth? There aren't too many neutron stars in the Solar System that ancient human miners cold mine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilonova wrote:
<<A kilonova (also called a macronova or r-process supernova) is a transient astronomical event that occurs in a compact binary system when two neutron stars or a neutron star and a black hole merge into each other. Kilonovae are thought to emit short gamma-ray bursts and strong electromagnetic radiation due to the radioactive decay of heavy r-process nuclei that are produced and ejected fairly isotropically during the merger process.>>
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 pm
by orin stepanek
When I graduated from HS in '58; there were 101 elements that I recall! Actually MD was created in 1955! Curios looking at today's APOD; I went on line & found 114 to 118! Wow!
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:39 pm
by Thrilled
Actually phosphorous is much more abundant than copper in the human body. Wikipedia says the following:
An average adult human contains about 0.7 kg of phosphorus, about 85–90% in bones and teeth in the form of apatite, and the remainder in soft tissues and extracellular fluids (~1%).
The human body contains copper at a level of about 1.4 to 2.1 mg per kg of body mass.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:42 pm
by neufer
heehaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:45 am
How appropriate that my gold wedding ring was made in merging neutron stars!
"Your precious "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Ring wrote:
<<The One Ring was forged by the Dark Lord Sauron during the Second Age to gain dominion over the free peoples of Middle-earth. In disguise as Annatar, or "Lord of Gifts", he aided the Elven smiths of Eregion and their leader Celebrimbor in the making of the Rings of Power. He then forged the One Ring in the fires of Mount Doom.
As the Ring contained much of Sauron's power, it was endowed with a malevolent sentience. While separated from Sauron, the Ring strove to return to him by manipulating its bearer to claim ownership of it, or by abandoning its bearer. To master the Ring's capabilities, a Ring bearer would need a well-trained mind, a strong will, and great native power. Those with weaker minds, such as hobbits and [heehaw], would gain little from the Ring, let alone realize its full potential.>>
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:51 pm
by neufer
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 pm
When I graduated from HS in '58; there were 101 elements that I recall! Actually MD was created in 1955!
Curios looking at today's APOD; I went on line & found 114 to 118! Wow!
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 pm
When I graduated from HS in '58; there were 101 elements that I recall! Actually MD was created in 1955!
Curios looking at today's APOD; I went on line & found 114 to 118! Wow!
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Very nice Art; even though I couldn't listen fast enough!
heehaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:45 am
How appropriate that my gold wedding ring was made in merging neutron stars!
"Your precious "
Not just wedding rings are precious, although I'm not sure what cosmic processes are involved in making that other precious stuff...
Ann
That toilet paper problem seems to have been Rectumfied er--rectified! Here in the states anyway! 🧻
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:59 pm
by Chris Peterson
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 pm
When I graduated from HS in '58; there were 101 elements that I recall! Actually MD was created in 1955! Curios looking at today's APOD; I went on line & found 114 to 118! Wow! :shock:
Well, when Art graduated there were just four.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:12 pm
by Dan Loeb
Our atmosphere bled off Earth's inital allotment of Helium long ago. All of the Helium on Earth results from the nuclear decay of heavier elements. Helium thus formed is often trapped in deep rock formations. That is why your party balloons are filled with Helium extracted as a by-product of oil drilling operations. Sadly I don't see a color in the legend for this.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:16 pm
by Chris Peterson
Dan Loeb wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:12 pm
Our atmosphere bled off Earth's inital allotment of Helium long ago. All of the Helium on Earth results from the nuclear decay of heavier elements. Helium thus formed is often trapped in deep rock formations. That is why your party balloons are filled with Helium extracted as a by-product of oil drilling operations. Sadly I don't see a color in the legend for this.
Presumably because that source represents so much less than 1% of the total helium in the Universe that it couldn't be shown on the chart. This does represent the source of elements in the Universe, after all, not the source of elements found on Earth.
Dan Loeb wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:12 pm
Our atmosphere bled off Earth's inital allotment of Helium long ago. All of the Helium on Earth results from the nuclear decay of heavier elements. Helium thus formed is often trapped in deep rock formations. That is why your party balloons are filled with Helium extracted as a by-product of oil drilling operations. Sadly I don't see a color in the legend for this.
Presumably because that source represents so much less than 1% of the total helium in the Universe that it couldn't be shown on the chart. This does represent the source of elements in the Universe, after all, not the source of elements found on Earth.
Dan Loeb made a good observation though about Earth's He. In the same line of thinking, consider the accuracy of the very first sentence in today's Explanation:
The hydrogen in your body, present in every molecule of water, came from the Big Bang.
Is this perfectly true? It is certainly true that, to the best of our current understanding, every proton was originally formed in the Big Bang. But Is every Hydrogen atom nuclei a pristine fragment of the BB? No. A non-negligible fraction of H nuclei have once part of other heavier elements, but have broken free ether from spallation or by radioactive decay.
Dan Loeb wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:12 pm
Our atmosphere bled off Earth's inital allotment of Helium long ago. All of the Helium on Earth results from the nuclear decay of heavier elements. Helium thus formed is often trapped in deep rock formations. That is why your party balloons are filled with Helium extracted as a by-product of oil drilling operations. Sadly I don't see a color in the legend for this.
Presumably because that source represents so much less than 1% of the total helium in the Universe that it couldn't be shown on the chart. This does represent the source of elements in the Universe, after all, not the source of elements found on Earth.
Dan Loeb made a good observation though about Earth's He. In the same line of thinking, consider the accuracy of the very first sentence in today's Explanation:
The hydrogen in your body, present in every molecule of water, came from the Big Bang.
Is this perfectly true? It is certainly true that, to the best of our current understanding, every proton was originally formed in the Big Bang. But Is every Hydrogen atom nuclei a pristine fragment of the BB? No. A non-negligible fraction of H nuclei have once part of other heavier elements, but have broken free ether from spallation or by radioactive decay.
I wouldn't swear to it, but I have a strong inkling that the overwhelming majority of hydrogen found on Earth is primordial in origin (unlike helium). That is, the amount of H that exists because of radioactive processes is, probably, negligible.
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 pm
When I graduated from HS in '58; there were 101 elements that I recall! Actually MD was created in 1955! Curios looking at today's APOD; I went on line & found 114 to 118! Wow!
Well, when Art graduated there were just four.
Well, five actually.
I still remember counting down from 100 (by 7's ) while they administered that fifth element.
When I awoke (sans tonsils) they refused to give me the Shredded Wheat that I pleaded for (so I guess that couldn't qualify as a sixth element).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element) wrote:
<<In Plato's Timaeus speaking about air, Plato mentions that "there is the most translucent kind which is called by the name of aether (αἰθήρ)" but otherwise he adopted the classical system of four elements. Aristotle, who had been Plato's student at the Akademia, agreed on this point with his former mentor, emphasizing additionally that fire has sometimes been mistaken for aether. However, in his Book On the Heavens he introduced a new "first" element to the system of the classical elements of Ionian philosophy. He noted that the four terrestrial classical elements were subject to change and naturally moved linearly. The first element however, located in the celestial regions and heavenly bodies, moved circularly and had none of the qualities the terrestrial classical elements had. It was neither hot nor cold, neither wet nor dry. With this addition the system of elements was extended to five and later commentators started referring to the new first one as the fifth and also called it aether, a word that Aristotle had not used.
Aether differed from the four terrestrial elements; it was incapable of motion of quality or motion of quantity. Aether was only capable of local motion. Aether naturally moved in circles, and had no contrary, or unnatural, motion. Aristotle also noted that celestial spheres made of aether held the stars and planets. The idea of aethereal spheres moving with natural circular motion led to Aristotle's explanation of the observed orbits of stars and planets in perfectly circular motion.
Medieval scholastic philosophers granted aether changes of density, in which the bodies of the planets were considered to be more dense than the medium which filled the rest of the universe. Robert Fludd stated that the aether was of the character that it was "subtler than light". Fludd cites the 3rd-century view of Plotinus, concerning the aether as penetrative and non-material.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories wrote:
Albert Einstein sometimes used the word aether for the gravitational field within general relativity, but this terminology never gained widespread support:
We may say that according to the general theory of relativity space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an aether. According to the general theory of relativity space without aether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this aether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it.
David G wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:13 am
The only colour that's not in the legend is dark brown ... what cosmic process is responsible for Tc, Po, At, etc.?
I'm guessing none. I think these all have half lives that are too short for there to be any left over that have originate from cosmic processes. Anything naturally occurring now would be from recent radioactive decay of other elements.
This is an oddity of this APOD. The main pic doesn't include the dark gray (or brown) color code for the "Human systhesis, No stable isotopes" category of element origin, but the "featured periodic table" link refers to an SVG in the Wikipedia article for Nucleosynthesis that DOES include it. From https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... _table.svg :
And I now see there are other differences as well. Here's the APOD image:
David G wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:13 am
The only colour that's not in the legend is dark brown ... what cosmic process is responsible for Tc, Po, At, etc.?
I'm guessing none. I think these all have half lives that are too short for there to be any left over that have originate from cosmic processes. Anything naturally occurring now would be from recent radioactive decay of other elements.
This is an oddity of this APOD. The main pic doesn't include the dark gray (or brown) color code for the "Human systhesis, No stable isotopes" category of element origin, but the "featured periodic table" link refers to an SVG in the Wikipedia article for Nucleosynthesis that DOES include it. From https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... _table.svg :
Presumably because this is a Sunday repeat. The link points to an actively maintained image, which has been updated since the static image on the APOD page was first created.
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 pm
When I graduated from HS in '58; there were 101 elements that I recall! Actually MD was created in 1955! Curios looking at today's APOD; I went on line & found 114 to 118! Wow!
Well, when Art graduated there were just four.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:30 am
by luftwaffe1@aol.com
How can I get a copy of this periodic table to insert into my Physics text book? pass the ice cold one
The hydrogen in your body, present in every molecule of water, came from the Big Bang.
Is this perfectly true? It is certainly true that, to the best of our current understanding, every proton was originally formed in the Big Bang. But Is every Hydrogen atom nuclei a pristine fragment of the BB? No. A non-negligible fraction of H nuclei have once part of other heavier elements, but have broken free ether from spallation or by radioactive decay.
I wouldn't swear to it, but I have a strong inkling that the overwhelming majority of hydrogen found on Earth is primordial in origin (unlike helium). That is, the amount of H that exists because of radioactive processes is, probably, negligible.
After reviewing the main sets of decay chains (which don’t normally decay by emitting single protons) I now agree with your inkling Chris.
Re: APOD: The Origin of Elements (2020 Aug 09)
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:20 am
by Nvarius
It appears that colliding neutron stars are not the source of the unexplained abundance of gold in our observable universe. Due to the complex and difficult molecular process required to produce gold, I am thinking that the main source of gold might be coming from black holes. Is this even a possibility?
The Origin of Elements
"
) while they administered that fifth element.
