APOD: Jupiter's Swimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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APOD: Jupiter's Swimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by APOD Robot » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:06 am

Image Jupiter's Swimming Storm

Explanation: A bright storm head with a long turbulent wake swims across Jupiter in these sharp telescopic images of the Solar System's ruling gas giant. Captured on August 26, 28, and September 1 (left to right) the storm approximately doubles in length during that period. Stretching along the jetstream of the planet's North Temperate Belt it travels eastward in successive frames, passing the Great Red Spot and whitish Oval BA, famous storms in Jupiter's southern hemisphere. Galilean moons Callisto and Io are caught in the middle frame. In fact, telescopic skygazers following Jupiter in planet Earth's night have reported dramatic fast moving storm outbreaks over the past few weeks in Jupiter's North Temperate Belt.

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WWW

Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by WWW » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:00 am

I bet it’s that dolphin from a while back coming up for a breath of fresh air, (or would it be fresh hydrogen?). I don't even think it was a dolphin, more likely an old astronomer’s joke created for no good porpoise.

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by Ann » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:14 am

WWW wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:00 am
I bet it’s that dolphin from a while back coming up for a breath of fresh air, (or would it be fresh hydrogen?). I don't even think it was a dolphin, more likely an old astronomer’s joke created for no good porpoise.

You mean this dolphin, right front and center in the clouds of Jupiter in the picture at right? :arrow:

Ann
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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by Elzbeth_Amethyst » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:11 am

There's a misspelling in the title. It should be SWIMMING not swmimming.

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by orin stepanek » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:57 pm

Jupiters_swimmingstormsACasely1024.jpg

Hmmm! I don"t Know about this! :roll:
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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by RJN » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm

Elzbeth_Amethyst wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:11 am
There's a misspelling in the title. It should be SWIMMING not swmimming.
Yes. The title has now been fixed. Thanks!

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by smitty » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:38 pm

Has anyone calculated the "ground speed" at which the storm is traversing the planet? Appears that it would be quite fast, relative to the typical ground speed of hurricanes on earth, for example. Fascinating!
Last edited by smitty on Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by neufer » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:40 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffer_train wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
<<In a cellular automaton a puffer train, or simply puffer, is a finite pattern that moves itself across the "universe", leaving debris behind. Thus a pattern consisting of only a puffer will grow arbitrarily large over time. While both puffers and spaceships have periods and speeds, unlike puffers, spaceships do not leave debris behind.

The period of a puffer can be considered as the combination of two periods; the first is the period of the puffer itself, while the second is the apparent period of the pattern of debris produced. This is often the same as the period of the puffer, but sometimes is a factor of the period. A puffer for which the apparent period deduced from the debris is smaller than the period of the engine is a pseudoperiod puffer. Such puffers are typically produced by artificial means. A true period puffer is one in which the period of the debris matches that of the puffer.

Puffers are divided into two classes, dirty puffers and clean puffers. While there is no precise distinction, a dirty puffer is one in which there is little apparent order in the debris (although the debris will still eventually be periodic). A clean puffer, conversely, has a small amount of debris that appears much more organized. A dirty puffer can sometimes be turned into a clean puffer by adding spaceships of the same velocity as the puffer that affect what debris results.

The first known puffer, in Conway's Game of Life, was discovered by Bill Gosper; it is a dirty puffer, but eventually stabilizes to leave a pattern of debris that repeats every 140 generations. Since then, many puffers have been discovered for this cellular automaton, with many different speeds and periods. Puffers are significant for Life and related rules for three reasons: First, if they can be stabilized in such a way that they produce only gliders (that is, turned into rakes) they can be used as part of many more complex patterns such as breeders. Second, stabilizations of puffers that eliminate all of their output debris can be used to produce spaceships with arbitrarily large periods. And third, puffers can sometimes be tamed or combined to form spaceships with speeds that do not seem to be achievable in other ways.>>
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by rselmo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:43 pm

Can someone explain why the giant red spot is moving clockwise while Jupiter rotates counterclockwise?

rselmo

Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by rselmo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:52 pm

Never mind about the clockwise red spot question. I realize the pictures were taken over several days.

Dan

Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by Dan » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:19 pm

The main page title has been fixed, but not in here

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:25 pm

neufer wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:40 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffer_train wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
<<In a cellular automaton a puffer train, or simply puffer, is a finite pattern that moves itself across the "universe", leaving debris behind. Thus a pattern consisting of only a puffer will grow arbitrarily large over time. While both puffers and spaceships have periods and speeds, unlike puffers, spaceships do not leave debris behind.

The period of a puffer can be considered as the combination of two periods; the first is the period of the puffer itself, while the second is the apparent period of the pattern of debris produced. This is often the same as the period of the puffer, but sometimes is a factor of the period. A puffer for which the apparent period deduced from the debris is smaller than the period of the engine is a pseudoperiod puffer. Such puffers are typically produced by artificial means. A true period puffer is one in which the period of the debris matches that of the puffer.

Puffers are divided into two classes, dirty puffers and clean puffers. While there is no precise distinction, a dirty puffer is one in which there is little apparent order in the debris (although the debris will still eventually be periodic). A clean puffer, conversely, has a small amount of debris that appears much more organized. A dirty puffer can sometimes be turned into a clean puffer by adding spaceships of the same velocity as the puffer that affect what debris results.

The first known puffer, in Conway's Game of Life, was discovered by Bill Gosper; it is a dirty puffer, but eventually stabilizes to leave a pattern of debris that repeats every 140 generations. Since then, many puffers have been discovered for this cellular automaton, with many different speeds and periods. Puffers are significant for Life and related rules for three reasons: First, if they can be stabilized in such a way that they produce only gliders (that is, turned into rakes) they can be used as part of many more complex patterns such as breeders. Second, stabilizations of puffers that eliminate all of their output debris can be used to produce spaceships with arbitrarily large periods. And third, puffers can sometimes be tamed or combined to form spaceships with speeds that do not seem to be achievable in other ways.>>
Imaginative association. Conway's Game Of Life is another one of my favorite things! Check out the Golly app, which is the best Life program there is.

RIP John Horton Conway - COVID took him much too soon.
"To Boldly Go......Beyond The Fields We Know."

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:29 pm

smitty wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:38 pm
Has anyone calculated the "ground speed" at which the storm is traversing the planet? Appears that it would be quite fast, relative to the typical ground speed of hurricanes on earth, for example. Fascinating!
There may in fact be no "ground" on Jupiter, which may not have a core. And even if it does have a core, it is quite small compared to the height above it that that storm is moving, making a "ground speed" fairly meaningless. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter#I ... _structure
Jupiter was expected to either consist of a dense core, a surrounding layer of liquid metallic hydrogen (with some helium) extending outward to about 78% of the radius of the planet,[49] and an outer atmosphere consisting predominantly of molecular hydrogen,[50] or perhaps to have no core at all, consisting instead of denser and denser fluid (predominantly molecular and metallic hydrogen) all the way to the center, depending on whether the planet accreted first as a solid body or collapsed directly from the gaseous protoplanetary disk. However, the Juno mission, which arrived in July 2016,[25] found that Jupiter has a very diffuse core, mixed into the mantle.[52] A possible cause is an impact from a planet of about ten Earth masses a few million years after Jupiter's formation, which would have disrupted an originally solid Jovian core.[53][54][55]
"To Boldly Go......Beyond The Fields We Know."

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swmimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:36 pm

Ann wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:14 am
WWW wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:00 am
I bet it’s that dolphin from a while back coming up for a breath of fresh air, (or would it be fresh hydrogen?). I don't even think it was a dolphin, more likely an old astronomer’s joke created for no good porpoise.

You mean this dolphin, right front and center in the clouds of Jupiter in the picture at right? :arrow:

Ann
Now that's an instance of pareidolia I can actually appreciate, compared to the many overly imaginitively named nebulas, which try way too hard. :)
"To Boldly Go......Beyond The Fields We Know."

WWW

Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by WWW » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:42 pm

Is there a misspelling in that last post?
In this case I think it is actually an instance of Pareidolphinia.

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by smitty » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:42 pm

johnnydeep wrote: "There may in fact be no "ground" on Jupiter, which may not have a core. And even if it does have a core, it is quite small compared to the height above it that that storm is moving, making a "ground speed" fairly meaningless."

Picky, picky, picky! Okay how 'bout has anyone taken a look at the storm's orbital angular velocity and compared it with the orbital angular velocity of a typical hurricane on earth?

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by neufer » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:44 pm

WWW wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:42 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:36 pm

Now that's an instance of pareidolia I can actually appreciate,
compared to the many overly imaginitively named nebulas, which try way too hard. :)
Is there a misspelling in that last post?

In this case I think it is actually an instance of Pareidolphinia.
  • Anti-pareidolphinia :?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin#Etymology wrote:
<<Dolphin is a common name of aquatic mammals within the infraorder Cetacea. The name is originally from Greek δελφίς (delphís), "dolphin", which was related to the Greek δελφύς (delphus), "womb". The animal's name can therefore be interpreted as meaning "a 'fish' with a womb". The name was transmitted via the Latin delphinus (the romanization of the later Greek δελφῖνος – delphinos), which in Medieval Latin became dolfinus and in Old French daulphin, which reintroduced the ph into the word. The term mereswine (that is, "sea pig") has also historically been used.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia wrote:
<<Pareidolia is the tendency for incorrect perception of a stimulus as an object, pattern or meaning known to the observer, such as seeing shapes in clouds, seeing faces in inanimate objects or abstract patterns, or hearing hidden messages in music. Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, the Man in the Moon, the Moon rabbit, and other lunar pareidolia. The concept of pareidolia may extend to include hidden messages in recorded music played in reverse or at higher- or lower-than-normal speeds, and hearing indistinct voices in random noise such as that produced by air conditioners or fans. The word derives from the Greek words para (παρά, "beside, alongside, instead [of]") and the noun eidōlon (εἴδωλον "image, form, shape"). The German word "Pareidolie" was used in articles by Karl Ludwig Kahlbaum — for example in his 1866 paper "Die Sinnesdelierien" ("On Delusion of the Senses"). When Kahlbaum's paper was reviewed the following year (1867) in The Journal of Mental Science, Volume 13, "Pareidolie" was translated as pareidolia: "…partial hallucination, perception of secondary images, or pareidolia.">>
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: Jupiter's Swimming Storm (2020 Sep 10)

Post by neufer » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:02 pm

smitty wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:42 pm

johnnydeep wrote: "There may in fact be no "ground" on Jupiter, which may not have a core. And even if it does have a core, it is quite small compared to the height above it that that storm is moving, making a "ground speed" fairly meaningless."

Picky, picky, picky! Okay how 'bout has anyone taken a look at the storm's orbital angular velocity and compared it with the orbital angular velocity of a typical hurricane on earth?
http://pvol2.ehu.eus/pvol2/news/view?id=29 wrote:
<<The plume moves [eastward] at 165 m/s at 22.9º (pg) just a bit south to the NTB peak jet which in 2016-2017 had a peak velocity of 150 m/s. This means that, as predicted from observations of previous events, the convective disturbance moves faster than the zonal winds with the typical behavior of previous disturbances in the NTB.>>
This is twice the [average eastward] velocity of the winter subtropical jet stream over Japan :arrow:

However, The Great Red Spot is the closest example of a Jupiter "hurricane."

The Great Red Spot's rotation period is given as 9.928333 hours. Jupiter's rotation period is given as 9.925 hours. This means that Jupiter's "hurricane" moves westward at ~4 m/s. This is approximately the same westward speed of Earth's subtropical hurricanes.
Art Neuendorffer