APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

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APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by APOD Robot » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:06 am

Image Webb's Southern Ring Nebula

Explanation: Cataloged as NGC 3132 the Southern Ring Nebula is a planetary nebula, the death shroud of a dying sun-like star some 2,500 light-years from Earth. Composed of gas and dust the stunning cosmic landscape is nearly half a light-year in diameter, explored in unprecedented detail by the James Webb Space Telescope. In this NIRCam image the bright star near center is a companion of the dying star. In mutual orbit, the star whose transformation has ejected the nebula's gas and dust shells over thousands of years is the fainter stellar partner. Evolving to become a white dwarf, the faint star appears along the diffraction spike extending toward the 8 o'clock position. This stellar pair's orbital motion has resulted the complex structures within the Southern Ring Nebula.

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by bystander » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:25 am

ESA: Webb Captures Dying Star’s Final ‘Performance’ in Fine Detail
STScI: Webb Captures Dying Star’s Final ‘Performance’ in Fine Detail

This side-by-side comparison shows observations of the Southern Ring Nebula
in near-infrared light (NIRCam), at left, and mid-infrared light (MIRI), at right,
from the NASA/ESA/CSA Webb Telescope.
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by SpaceCadet » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:27 am

Is the fainter stellar partner the one right next to the gas bubble, or the one in the middle of it? And if it is the one next to it, why is the companion star in the middle of the gas bubble? Shouldn't the dying star be in the middle?

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by bystander » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:43 am

SpaceCadet wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:27 am Is the fainter stellar partner the one right next to the gas bubble, or the one in the middle of it? And if it is the one next to it, why is the companion star in the middle of the gas bubble? Shouldn't the dying star be in the middle?
They're both in the middle. The bright one, with the refraction spikes, is the companion. Just to the left and below (at 8 o'clock) along the refraction spike is the one that blew off all the gas and dust that make this nebula.
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by FLPhotoCatcher » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:55 am

How transparent is the surrounding dust and gas? It looks, at first glance, to be opaque, but I see several galaxies through the nebula.

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Ann » Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:36 am


In the image at right (the one at mid infrared wavelengths), where you can see two stars at the center of the nebula, it is actually the red star that is the white dwarf.
Webbtelescope.org wrote:

NASA’s Webb Telescope has revealed the cloak of dust around the second star, shown at left in red, at the center of the Southern Ring Nebula for the first time. It is a hot, dense white dwarf star.

As it transformed into a white dwarf, the star periodically ejected mass – the shells of material you see here. As if on repeat, it contracted, heated up – and then, unable to push out more material, pulsated.

At this stage, it should have shed its last layers. So why is the red star still cloaked in dust? Was material transferred from its companion? Researchers will begin to pursue answers soon.
It is going to be hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that white dwarfs can be so cloaked in dust that they are red. I always look for the bluest star inside a planetary nebula to spot the central white dwarf inside it.

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by SpaceCadet » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:30 am

bystander wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:43 am
SpaceCadet wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:27 am Is the fainter stellar partner the one right next to the gas bubble, or the one in the middle of it? And if it is the one next to it, why is the companion star in the middle of the gas bubble? Shouldn't the dying star be in the middle?
They're both in the middle. The bright one, with the refraction spikes, is the companion. Just to the left and below (at 8 o'clock) along the refraction spike is the one that blew off all the gas and dust that make this nebula.
Thanks, I totally missed that little pin of a star.

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:18 am

I miss a colour legend for Hubble's optic band pic
Image
Southern Ring Nebula hubble orientation.png
Why the inside is blue by Hubble and far infra-red from Webb?

What are the ring's shape and matter?
Is it round and seen at the angle, making one dimension 2 times shorter?
Is it slightly thicker outside, making the side near to us less illuminated from the center?

What velocity is the ring expanding at; how old is it?
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by AVAO » Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:49 am

Ann wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:36 am
Webbtelescope.org wrote:
NASA’s Webb Telescope has revealed the cloak of dust around the second star, shown at left in red, at the center of the Southern Ring Nebula for the first time. It is a hot, dense white dwarf star.
It is going to be hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that white dwarfs can be so cloaked in dust that they are red. I always look for the bluest star inside a planetary nebula to spot the central white dwarf inside it.
Ann
The companion star is also very visible in the HUBBLE images, why should this be the first time?

Image
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/522 ... 0e5e_o.jpg
jac berne (flickr)

... ok sorry ... "the dust coat around the second star" ... that's true of course ...
Last edited by AVAO on Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by orin stepanek » Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:52 pm

STScI-WebbSouthernRing.jpg
I like! I hope NASA keeps sending new photos to enjoy!
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by SeedsofEarfth » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:17 pm

I am amazed at the clarity of this image; it is so clear one can see several faint galaxies behind the veil of dust surrounding the binary, even one edge-on at the ten o'clock position in the red dust cloud. And I thought Hubble was sharp, but this is incredible. I can't wait to see other celestial features using this wonderful tool. It would be great to see Eta Carinae using the Webb telescope. Let's get it on!

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:19 pm

SeedsofEarfth wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:17 pm I am amazed at the clarity of this image; it is so clear one can see several faint galaxies behind the veil of dust surrounding the binary, even one edge-on at the ten o'clock position in the red dust cloud. And I thought Hubble was sharp, but this is incredible. I can't wait to see other celestial features using this wonderful tool. It would be great to see Eta Carinae using the Webb telescope. Let's get it on!
The JWST and the HST have about the same resolution. Images from both are equally "clear". They simply show different parts of the spectrum.
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by shaileshs » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:43 pm

I wonder what's the BIG deal NASA folks are other people are making about that "edge-on" galaxy seen at 10 o'clock position.. Within the external sprayed cloud (orange portion), I see *at least* a couple more between 8-9 o'clock.. maybe there are more.. And unfortunately the star that exploded doesn't show up clearly in the new image (gets blocked by companion star's spike I guess)..

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by JudyTexan » Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:35 pm

Thanks for the location hints for the star that exploded! I was looking farther along the spike.

The edge-on spiral galaxy at about 8:00 is spectacular.

JudyTexan

Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by JudyTexan » Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:37 pm

...10:00 spike...

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:46 pm

I wonder if we can see a planet 11 light days away from the dwarf in NIR pic
Not the planet as a dot but a long straight tail?

Here I try to mark the tail and the distance between the dwarf and the tail, with yellow dotted lines (see in full resolution)
Southern Ring Nebula + 5.jpg
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:12 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:46 pm I wonder if we can see a planet 11 light years away from the dwarf in NIR pic
Not the planet as a dot but a long straight tail

Southern Ring Nebula + 5.jpg
That is clearly an artifact of some kind, as the dots are much smaller than the optical resolution of the system.
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Avalon » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:54 pm

What type of energy created the many rays radiating through the ejected material, especially in the lower left quadrant of the nebula?

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:46 am

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:12 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:46 pm I wonder if we can see a planet 11 light years away from the dwarf in NIR pic
Not the planet as a dot but a long straight tail

Southern Ring Nebula + 5.jpg
That is clearly an artifact of some kind, as the dots are much smaller than the optical resolution of the system.
Sorry I was not clear. Updated my comment.
Yellow dotted lines were mine

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:38 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:46 am
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:12 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:46 pm I wonder if we can see a planet 11 light years away from the dwarf in NIR pic
Not the planet as a dot but a long straight tail

Southern Ring Nebula + 5.jpg
That is clearly an artifact of some kind, as the dots are much smaller than the optical resolution of the system.
Sorry I was not clear. Updated my comment.
Yellow dotted lines were mine
Sure, the lines were clearly your addition, but where exactly do you think the planet (or "tail") is? I see nothing significant near your arrow.

[ EDIT: at least, I see nothing in my own blow-up of the image. There is "something" there in your blow-up, but I'm not sure if that's a yellow dot you added or not! }
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:43 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:38 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:46 am
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:12 pm

That is clearly an artifact of some kind, as the dots are much smaller than the optical resolution of the system.
Sorry I was not clear. Updated my comment.
Yellow dotted lines were mine
Sure, the lines were clearly your addition, but where exactly do you think the planet (or "tail") is? I see nothing significant near your arrow.

[ EDIT: at least, I see nothing in my own blow-up of the image. There is "something" there in your blow-up, but I'm not sure if that's a yellow dot you added or not! }
Southern Ring Nebula + 6.jpg
Southern Ring Nebula + 7.jpg
I mean a straight comet-like tail that seem to start from a point 11 light days from the hot dwarf.
My lines are drawn 5° to East from South
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:05 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:38 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:46 am
Sorry I was not clear. Updated my comment.
Yellow dotted lines were mine
Sure, the lines were clearly your addition, but where exactly do you think the planet (or "tail") is? I see nothing significant near your arrow.

[ EDIT: at least, I see nothing in my own blow-up of the image. There is "something" there in your blow-up, but I'm not sure if that's a yellow dot you added or not! }
Southern Ring Nebula + 6.jpg
Southern Ring Nebula + 7.jpg
I mean a straight comet-like tail that seem to start from a point 11 light days from the hot dwarf.
My lines are drawn 5° to East from South
I don't see how you can make any reasonable assumptions about the distance of this structure from the star. Or how you can assume that a faint bright point is a planet as opposed to a star or a dust clump.
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by bystander » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:36 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:46 pm
I wonder if we can see a planet 11 light days away from the dwarf in NIR pic
Not the planet as a dot but a long straight tail?

I think what you are calling a planet is the progenitor of the nebula, at least that is what is indicated by the APOD text.
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:29 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:05 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:43 pm Southern Ring Nebula + 6.jpg
Southern Ring Nebula + 7.jpg
I mean a straight comet-like tail that seem to start from a point 11 light days from the hot dwarf.
My lines are drawn 5° to East from South
I don't see how you can make any reasonable assumptions about the distance of this structure from the star. Or how you can assume that a faint bright point is a planet as opposed to a star or a dust clump.
about the distance
There is 0.25 ly interval for scale.
The plane of the dwarf, the companion star, the light-year large ring and supposed planets is at an angle, making the ring an ellipse 2 times compressed in one direction. Were the position of the supposed planet at 7 o'clock from the star we should multiply the 11 light days by 2 and get 22 light days; as it is, the distance is more like 17 light days.

a faint bright point
Am I clumsy with words. I don't mean we can see the supposed planet as any dot.
I mean just a cometary tail that may start at a planet.
Here I try to highlight that tail:
Southern Ring Nebula + 8.jpg
Southern Ring Nebula + 9.jpg
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:44 pm

bystander wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:36 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:46 pm
I wonder if we can see a planet 11 light days away from the dwarf in NIR pic
Not the planet as a dot but a long straight tail?

I think what you are calling a planet is the progenitor of the nebula, at least that is what is indicated by the APOD text.
APOD text says:
This stellar pair's orbital motion has resulted the complex structures within the Southern Ring Nebula.
No mention of planets as progenitors of some of the details.

The main ring is as large as Oort's cloud. I doubt that it can contain hundreds of cold jupiters to account for all the comet-like tails spiking out of the main ring. There must be clumps ejected by the exploded star; say, some magnetic coils that trapped some matter in an outer layer of the star and held it together through the kick of the shock wave from beneath.

But one close cometary tail I think we can see is close enough for a planet in an orbit around both stars.