APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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Chris Peterson
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:49 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:29 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:05 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:43 pm Southern Ring Nebula + 6.jpg
Southern Ring Nebula + 7.jpg
I mean a straight comet-like tail that seem to start from a point 11 light days from the hot dwarf.
My lines are drawn 5° to East from South
I don't see how you can make any reasonable assumptions about the distance of this structure from the star. Or how you can assume that a faint bright point is a planet as opposed to a star or a dust clump.
about the distance
There is 0.25 ly interval for scale.
The plane of the dwarf, the companion star, the light-year large ring and supposed planets is at an angle, making the ring an ellipse 2 times compressed in one direction. Were the position of the supposed planet at 7 o'clock from the star we should multiply the 11 light days by 2 and get 22 light days; as it is, the distance is more like 17 light days.

a faint bright point
Am I clumsy with words. I don't mean we can see the supposed planet as any dot.
I mean just a cometary tail that may start at a planet.
Here I try to highlight that tail:
Southern Ring Nebula + 8.jpgSouthern Ring Nebula + 9.jpg
The failed assumption, IMO, is supposing that what you're seeing lies on the same plane as the star. I see nothing to support that. Nor that it lies on the same plane as the binary system.

What you're seeing as a "cometary tail" doesn't look any different to me than the clumpy structure seen all over this nebula.
Chris

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VictorBorun
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:31 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:49 pm What you're seeing as a "cometary tail" doesn't look any different to me than the clumpy structure seen all over this nebula.
The one I am pointing at is straight and oriented away from the dwarf, just like hundreds of cometaries at the periphery of the main ring a light year large.

The many clumpy structure inside the main ring are curved lanes and so could have formed as jets from a fast rotating thing like the exploding star or the accretion disk around the companion star.

A planet orbiting 10-20 light days from the binary stellar system would have a 100 thousands years period and more or less would stay still while producing a straight cometary tail.

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Chris Peterson
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:46 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:31 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:49 pm What you're seeing as a "cometary tail" doesn't look any different to me than the clumpy structure seen all over this nebula.
The one I am pointing at is straight and oriented away from the dwarf, just like hundreds of cometaries at the periphery of the main ring a light year large.

The many clumpy structure inside the main ring are curved lanes and so could have formed as jets from a fast rotating thing like the exploding star or the accretion disk around the companion star.

A planet orbiting 10-20 light days from the binary stellar system would have a 100 thousands years period and more or less would stay still while producing a straight cometary tail.
Why would such a planet produce a cometary trail at all? And why would any short trail persist in that windy, high radiation pressure environment?
Chris

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VictorBorun
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:04 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:46 pm Why would such a planet produce a cometary trail at all? And why would any short trail persist in that windy, high radiation pressure environment?
Not sure if a planet of a blow-up star donors the matter for a cometary nebula or, on the contrary, blocks and partially decline the stellar flow. Both ways a straight «shadow» forms, does it not?

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Chris Peterson
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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:08 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:04 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:46 pm Why would such a planet produce a cometary trail at all? And why would any short trail persist in that windy, high radiation pressure environment?
Not sure if a planet of a blow-up star donors the matter for a cometary nebula or, on the contrary, blocks and partially decline the stellar flow. Both ways a straight «shadow» forms, does it not?
I don't see a planet forming a resolvable shadow at all.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by AVAO » Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:31 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:04 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:46 pm Why would such a planet produce a cometary trail at all? And why would any short trail persist in that windy, high radiation pressure environment?
Not sure if a planet of a blow-up star donors the matter for a cometary nebula or, on the contrary, blocks and partially decline the stellar flow. Both ways a straight «shadow» forms, does it not?
I find your idea very exciting as the line effectively points directly away from the less bright companion star. Unfortunately, the "planet tail" can only be seen in the green and blue channels but absolutely not in the red, which supports Chris' thesis. I would assume that it is a technically generated image fragment...

Jac

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Re: APOD: Webb's Southern Ring Nebula (2022 Jul 14)

Post by VictorBorun » Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:34 pm

AVAO wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:31 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:04 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:46 pm Why would such a planet produce a cometary trail at all? And why would any short trail persist in that windy, high radiation pressure environment?
Not sure if a planet of a blow-up star donors the matter for a cometary nebula or, on the contrary, blocks and partially decline the stellar flow. Both ways a straight «shadow» forms, does it not?
I find your idea very exciting as the line effectively points directly away from the less bright companion star. Unfortunately, the "planet tail" can only be seen in the green and blue channels but absolutely not in the red, which supports Chris' thesis. I would assume that it is a technically generated image fragment...

Jac
Do you mean that a planet's tail would have to differ somewhat in colours from the rest of the curved lanes? Because the planet's chemistry would be different?

But what if a distant exo-Jupiter has a strong magnetic field that makes a shadow in the stellar flow and prevents any donation to the flow?