Comments and questions about the
APOD on the main view screen.
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APOD Robot
- Otto Posterman
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by APOD Robot » Sun Nov 24, 2024 5:06 am
Journey to the Center of the Galaxy
Explanation: What lies at the center of our galaxy? In
Jules Verne's science fiction classic,
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, Professor Liedenbrock and his fellow explorers encounter many strange and exciting wonders. Astronomers already know of some of the bizarre objects that exist at our
Galactic Center, including
vast cosmic dust clouds,
bright star clusters,
swirling rings of gas, and even a
supermassive black hole. Much of the
Galactic Center is
shielded from our view in visible light by the intervening dust and gas, but it can be explored using
other forms of
electromagnetic radiation. The
featured video is actually a digital zoom into the
Milky Way's center which starts by utilizing visible light images from the
Digitized Sky Survey. As
the movie proceeds, the light shown shifts to dust-penetrating
infrared and highlights gas clouds that were recently
discovered in 2013 to be falling toward the central black hole.
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AVAO
- Commander
- Posts: 802
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 12:24 pm
- AKA: multiwavelength traveller
- Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post
by AVAO » Sun Nov 24, 2024 5:54 am
100'000 ly
10'000 ly
1'000 ly
100 ly
10 ly
1 ly
18 LightDays
The white pixel in the middle has a size of 260 light minutes.
This means that the SMB is again 26 times smaller.
That is really extremely small.
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Ann
- 4725 Å
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- Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am
Post
by Ann » Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:09 am
Wow, Jac, that's a fantastic set of images as usual!
Yes indeed, the central black hole of the Milky Way is small and mostly quiet, and I think we are very lucky that that is the case. Consider the large galaxy grups that are completely dominated by barren ellipticals that are continually bathed the plasma and "explosive" winds from the humongous jets from the enormous black holes of the dominant ellipticals in such galaxy groups (think M87).
The dominant galaxy in the system 3C 321 is actually striking its neighbor or satellite galaxy with its jet:
These "death jets" are a part of the explanation of why mature galaxy clusters are completely dominated by "red and dead" elliptical galaxies. Of course, another explanation is the continuous "jostling", "fraying" and galactic "harassment" going on inside dense clusters where galaxies interact in such a way that they drive gas out of one another. The dominant galaxies in such clusters may have started their lives as ultraluminous infrared galaxies caught in a torrent of star formation which, however, soon consumed much of the gas reservoir of the galaxy and drove out much of the rest by exploding supernovas and a growing black hole.
Yes! But we have a nice fairly small rather well-behaved black hole in Sagittarius A*. And so far, we are mostly undisturbed by either Andromeda or the Large Magellanic Cloud, although both of them will eventually come and get us!
But that will not happen in a long, long time, and humanity will not be here to witness it.
Ann
Color Commentator
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johnnydeep
- Commodore
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- Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm
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by johnnydeep » Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:37 pm
That smudge of presumably gas at the end of the video looks like it is orbiting the SMB, not just falling in to it. But I suppose that all things do orbit a while first before being eaten. The orbital period here looks to be about a mere 10 years or so.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}
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Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 18612
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Post
by Chris Peterson » Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:37 pm
That smudge of presumably gas at the end of the video looks like it is orbiting the SMB, not just falling in to it. But I suppose that all things do orbit a while first before being eaten. The orbital period here looks to be about a mere 10 years or so.
The only way an orbiting body can fall into a black hole is for its orbit to decay, which requires removing energy. In the case of rigid bodies like planets or stars, that might be by radiating gravitational waves, but that takes a long, long time until the very end. In the case of gas, it's internal friction and turbulence, which is faster and explains accretion disk behavior. In most cases, black hole systems are very stable.
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johnnydeep
- Commodore
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Post
by johnnydeep » Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:41 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:37 pm
That smudge of presumably gas at the end of the video looks like it is orbiting the SMB, not just falling in to it. But I suppose that all things do orbit a while first before being eaten. The orbital period here looks to be about a mere 10 years or so.
The only way an orbiting body can fall into a black hole is for its orbit to decay, which requires removing energy. In the case of rigid bodies like planets or stars, that might be by radiating gravitational waves, but that takes a long, long time until the very end. In the case of gas, it's internal friction and turbulence, which is faster and explains accretion disk behavior. In most cases, black hole systems are very stable.
So is the blob of gas really orbiting and destined to fall in? How long could that take?
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}
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Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 18612
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Post
by Chris Peterson » Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:45 pm
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:41 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:37 pm
That smudge of presumably gas at the end of the video looks like it is orbiting the SMB, not just falling in to it. But I suppose that all things do orbit a while first before being eaten. The orbital period here looks to be about a mere 10 years or so.
The only way an orbiting body can fall into a black hole is for its orbit to decay, which requires removing energy. In the case of rigid bodies like planets or stars, that might be by radiating gravitational waves, but that takes a long, long time until the very end. In the case of gas, it's internal friction and turbulence, which is faster and explains accretion disk behavior. In most cases, black hole systems are very stable.
So is the blob of gas really orbiting and destined to fall in? How long could that take?
A "blob" of gas in an otherwise reasonably gas-free orbit might go around for a long time, since it's probably behaving similarly to a rigid body... although I'm sure there is still energy lost to internal turbulence from tidal forces if nothing else, so it's going to be a lot less stable than a star. Also, a blob of gas would normally dissipate/evaporate, not condense, which is a further complication in predicting its future.
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johnnydeep
- Commodore
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- Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm
Post
by johnnydeep » Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:58 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:45 pm
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:41 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:43 pm
The only way an orbiting body can fall into a black hole is for its orbit to decay, which requires removing energy. In the case of rigid bodies like planets or stars, that might be by radiating gravitational waves, but that takes a long, long time until the very end. In the case of gas, it's internal friction and turbulence, which is faster and explains accretion disk behavior. In most cases, black hole systems are very stable.
So is the blob of gas really orbiting and destined to fall in? How long could that take?
A "blob" of gas in an otherwise reasonably gas-free orbit might go around for a long time, since it's probably behaving similarly to a rigid body... although I'm sure there is still energy lost to internal turbulence from tidal forces if nothing else, so it's going to be a lot less stable than a star. Also, a blob of gas would normally dissipate/evaporate, not condense, which is a further complication in predicting its future.
Ok.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}
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Christian G.
- Science Officer
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:37 pm
Post
by Christian G. » Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:25 pm
AVAO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 5:54 am
100'000 ly
10'000 ly
1'000 ly
100 ly
10 ly
1 ly
18 LightDays
The white pixel in the middle has a size of 260 light minutes.
This means that the SMB is again 26 times smaller.
That is really extremely small.
Indeed a fascinating sequence of images, AVAO!
If I journeyed to the center of the Galaxy I would definitely make a quick stop by the Quintuplet cluster to admire the Pistol star! Unless I’m mistaken it's in the area circled in white in the third image.
gc.jpg
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Ann
- 4725 Å
- Posts: 13863
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am
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by Ann » Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:58 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:25 pm
If I journeyed to the center of the Galaxy I would definitely make a quick stop by the Quintuplet cluster to admire the Pistol star! Unless I’m mistaken it's in the area circled in white in the third image.
This is my favorite portrait of the galactic center. It's a Hubble/Spitzer collaboration:
STScI-01EVT5Y35KFV7KFJ7ERSGDNV40[1].jpg
Hubble-Spitzer Color Mosaic of the Galactic Center.
Credits: Hubble image: NASA, ESA, and Q.D. Wang;
Spitzer image: NASA, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and S. Stolovy
Pistol Star Quintuplet Cluster Arches Cluster Hubble Spitzer.png
Ann
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Color Commentator
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AVAO
- Commander
- Posts: 802
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 12:24 pm
- AKA: multiwavelength traveller
- Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post
by AVAO » Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:17 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:25 pm
[...]
Indeed a fascinating sequence of images, AVAO!
If I journeyed to the center of the Galaxy I would definitely make a quick stop by the Quintuplet cluster to admire the Pistol star! Unless I’m mistaken it's in the area circled in white in the third image.
Cool idea. I just don't know where you could get a sunscreen with protective factor 1.7E6
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Ann
- 4725 Å
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Post
by Ann » Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:12 am
AVAO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:17 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:25 pm
[...]
Indeed a fascinating sequence of images, AVAO!
If I journeyed to the center of the Galaxy I would definitely make a quick stop by the Quintuplet cluster to admire the Pistol star! Unless I’m mistaken it's in the area circled in white in the third image.
Cool idea. I just don't know where you could get a sunscreen with protective factor 1.7E6
Please tell me, Jac, how did you find - or create? - this image?
Ann
Color Commentator
-
AVAO
- Commander
- Posts: 802
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 12:24 pm
- AKA: multiwavelength traveller
- Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post
by AVAO » Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:54 am
Ann wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:12 am
AVAO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:17 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:25 pm
[...]
Indeed a fascinating sequence of images, AVAO!
If I journeyed to the center of the Galaxy I would definitely make a quick stop by the Quintuplet cluster to admire the Pistol star! Unless I’m mistaken it's in the area circled in white in the third image.
Cool idea. I just don't know where you could get a sunscreen with protective factor 1.7E6
Please tell me, Jac, how did you find - or create? - this image?
Ann
There are no really good IR images of this object that also show the Pistol Star's surroundings well.
My image collage is a composite of various sources and a subjective choice of color just4fun.
That's why this is only an attachment and not in my actual Flickr gallery.
But okay, let's wait for JWST. I don't think it will be long now.
The JWST images in the near infrared (212N/322W) are unfortunately not yet released.
On ARXIV there are only old images like this:
Source:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1407.1854
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Christian G.
- Science Officer
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Post
by Christian G. » Wed Nov 27, 2024 9:10 pm
Ann wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:58 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:25 pm
If I journeyed to the center of the Galaxy I would definitely make a quick stop by the Quintuplet cluster to admire the Pistol star! Unless I’m mistaken it's in the area circled in white in the third image.
This is my favorite portrait of the galactic center. It's a Hubble/Spitzer collaboration:
STScI-01EVT5Y35KFV7KFJ7ERSGDNV40[1].jpg
Hubble-Spitzer Color Mosaic of the Galactic Center.
Credits: Hubble image: NASA, ESA, and Q.D. Wang;
Spitzer image: NASA, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and S. Stolovy
Pistol Star Quintuplet Cluster Arches Cluster Hubble Spitzer.png
Ann
I think it has become my favorite one also, thanks! It has an inferno feel to it.
opo0902a.jpg
And if you crop the full size original, the result is not that bad!
Pistol star.jpeg
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