APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:00 am

sharpshooter wrote:If that's the setting Moon, those lights are Laramie, not Cheyenne.
No. The view is towards the north. The azimuth of the monument is about 80°, which is straight towards Cheyenne. The glow you see on the horizon just to the right of the Moon is Laramie.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by sharpshooter » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:19 pm

If that's the setting Moon, those lights are Laramie, not Cheyenne.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Ex-Laramie resident » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:00 pm

The shadows aren't as strange as people might think. This is an extremely wide panorama and you should imagine the swing of a compass needle if you were there at the scene and you were turning around in a complete circle. There are, quite appropriately, two vanishing points for the shadows. One should be at the moon and the other should be 180 degrees away. Left of center the shadows all radiate from the main light source, the moon. The Ames Monument is East of the observer (witness the tripod shadow), with Cheyenne also due East and directly behind the monument. The shadows appropriately converge in the direction of Cheyenne, pointing at the monument along the way. The least distorting way to view this image would be to print it out very large, curve it in a band with the printing on the inside curve, and view it from the center of that arc. You will have to turn your head to scan the full range of the image just like if you were at the scene yourself - and things on the ground would then look very close to normal to you.

Laramie is NW of the monument and is therefore represented by the orange glow between the moon and Cheyenne. I think that the green glow might come from the industrial site, possibly a mine or quarry, that is West of the monument and readily visible in Google Maps.

The image does not appear to be a full 360 degrees because conspicuously absent is any trace of the glow that should be coming from Fort Collins, Greeley, Denver, etc. in Colorado which should have outshone the Cheyenne glow. I suspect that at least some surface lights in Northern Colorado would probably be visible from the Ames Monument but I'm not seeing any here.

This image appears to have been stitched from three fisheye images (aimed West, Northeast, and East). Notice the extreme smearing of the details on the ground where the stitching software had to work very hard to bring together the ground details between what I guess were West and Northeast images, a little too far apart from each other to promote a good seamless stitch.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Tamfang » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:32 pm

Ann wrote:... the color of the landscape is neither typical of daylight or typical of landscapes at night (when there usually are very few colors).
The colors are there, but our night vision is not sensitive to them.
Guest wrote:the sun and full moon are both setting at the same time??
It's a panorama, so it shows the western and eastern horizon.
Guest wrote:Shadows stretching to and from the camera simultaneously.
It's a panorama, so it faces the light source and faces away from the light source.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:49 pm

brianngc5307 wrote:The Moon is opposite the Sun when full.
This image wasn't made during the full Moon, however.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by brianngc5307 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:20 pm

The Moon is opposite the Sun when full.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by brianngc5307 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:18 pm

The Sun and Moon do not look like they are in Sagittarius?

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Madrigorne » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:57 pm

Time-ultaneous. Time as a whole.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by NoelC » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:42 pm

sworster wrote:There is also a sun and a moon
I'm curious... Where do you perceive the sun to be in this image?

-Noel

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by sworster » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:11 pm

There are stars shining in the landscape. There are shadows, but they run in directions that are counter to the light. There is also a sun and a moon, not unusual, but the moon is in night mode while the sun is in day mode.
Thanks Robert Arn. It is beautiful.

Re: Justaposition: Buford, Wyoming

by NoelC » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:50 am

neufer wrote:...The hamlet of Buford in Wyoming is not even a sparsely-populated area. It’s a single-populated area
Another view, from Google Maps: Click Here

-Noel

by themos » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:13 pm

themos wrote:Having taken a similar picture myself
here's a link to it. http://pan0.net/upano.php?id=280

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by themos » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:07 pm

Having taken a similar picture myself, I notice that the horizon has two breaks in it. The line of fences on the left points (roughly) to the middle of the broken part. Also, the leftmost 100 pixels or so are a repeat of what is to the right of them (at least for the ground). The horizon break is inevitable, as the long exposures mean that by the time you shoot all 360 degrees, the stars have moved. But as you stitch the parts to make the stars coincide, you have to move the ground to compensate.

Themos

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Ann » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:11 am

Emma wrote:Is that Melotte 111 on the left hand side of the image?
I think it is. Leo is below and to the right of it.

By the way, don't miss the Double Cluster of Perseus in the lower left part of the Milky Way band.

Ann

Justaposition: Buford, Wyoming

by neufer » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:38 am

APOD Robot wrote:
Explanation: If you travel several kilometers off a main highway through Wyoming, you may see an unusual sight.
In particular, near Buford, Wyoming, USA, you could run across the geometric Ames Monument,
http://www.whatsonningbo.com/news-2238-us-man-don-sammons-60-is-the-only-resident-of-buford-wyoming.html wrote: <<If you ever get the feeling that you’re on your own, then spare a thought for Don Sammons. The hamlet of Buford in Wyoming is not even a sparsely-populated area. It’s a single-populated area, as the 60-year-old is the only man, woman or child living there. But even though the ‘population one’ hamlet is 8,000ft up a cold mountain, he denies feeling lonely and runs an isolated petrol station and convenience shop.

Mr Sammons left Los Angeles in 1980 with his wife and bought the tiny town with six buildings to escape their busy lifestyle. When the couple moved there were seven people living in Buford working for a railroad that passes nearby, but they all moved away to bigger towns by the mid-1990s. Then his wife died 15 years ago and his son, now aged 26, moved to Colorado three years ago. So that left Mr Sammons in Buford on his own.

He gets about 1,000 visitors a day to the village during the summer, which has a billboard proclaiming his small empire, but this drops to around 100 during the winter. ‘They stop because they're intrigued to find this place in the middle of nowhere near the top of a mountain,’ he said. ‘We sell all kinds of souvenirs from hats to mugs. The post card is our best seller. ’I'm glad to go back to my house after a 10-hour day talking to folks so I can get some peace and quiet. After I close I'm the only guy for miles around. And I like it that way.’ Mr Sammons turned a school house, which operated between 1905 and 1962, into his office and made another old store built in 1895 into a four-car garage. He lives in a three-bedroom log cabin and enjoys a commute of 200 yards to his workplace. ‘I'm the king of the castle here,’ he said.>>
...................................................
  • Back to the Future Part III (1990)
Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen: I think you ain't nothin' but a gutless YELLOW turd! And I'm givin' you to the count of ten to come out here and prove I'm wrong! One...

Marty McFly: Doc... Come on. Sober up, buddy. Let's go.

Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen: Two...

Saloon Old-Timer #1: You gotta get out there, SON.
. I got $20 GOLD bet on you, so don't let me down.

Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen: Three...

Saloon Old-Timer #2: I got $30 GOLD bet again' you, so don't let me down.

Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen: Four...

Saloon Old Timer #3: You better face up to it, SON, 'cause if you don't go out there...

Marty McFly: What?

Saloon Old Timer #3: Everybody everywhere will say,
. "Clint Eastwood is the biggest YELLOW-belly in the west."
----------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi%27s_Space_Race wrote:
Image
<<Yogi's Space Race was a 90-minute Saturday morning cartoon program block produced by Hanna-Barbera Productions from September 9 to December 2 in 1978 for NBC. It contained the following four segments:
  • * Yogi's Space Race: intergalactic racing competitions with Yogi Bear, Jabberjaw, Huckleberry Hound and several new characters.

    * Galaxy Goof-Ups: Yogi Bear, Scare Bear, Huckleberry Hound and Quack-Up as four intergalactic police officers and their leader, Captain Snerdley.

    * The Buford Files: Buford is a lazy bloodhound who solves mysteries in Fenokee County with two teenagers, Cindy Mae & Woody.

    * The Galloping Ghost: Nugget Nose is a ghost miner who haunts the Fuddy Dude Ranch and is a guardian to Wendy & Rita.>>

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by DavidLeodis » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:18 pm

In the explanation it mentions "land and sky justapositions". Is justapositions the US spelling of juxtapositions or is it likely to be just a typographical error? Please accept that this is not a criticism, as I just like to know. Thanks. :ssmile:

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Oz Viewer » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:39 am

Who cares whether it is the shadows, the unnatural colurs, the curve of the Milky Way, the line of the road or whatever, it's still a wonderful piece of artwork, and worthy of hanging on my wall, or that of any highly-regarded gallery. Superb rendition!

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Emma » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:03 am

Is that Melotte 111 on the left hand side of the image?

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by JDinLA » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:39 am

You can't see the Milky Way in L.A., but I seem to recall it stretches across the whole sky ...

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by RobertArn » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:19 am

Thank you Alice!

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by owlice » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:03 am

Nicely done, Robert!

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by RobertArn » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:54 am

Wow! This image has seen to spark a nice thread. If I can, let me try to address some of the comments that have been posted:

1) The large post on the left looks to be larger than the other posts. There are a couple reasons for this. One is because that post was physically larger. If you look closely there is a sign on top of it that is not on the other posts. Second is becuase that post was closer to my camera than another of the others.

2) The same post has a much larger shadow because, again, it was a larger post, but also, becuase it was in a direct line of sight between the moon (my light source) and my camera. So we are seeing the shadow straight on.

3) The shadow that is underneath the monument is not a continuation of the shadow from the post, but rather it is a shadow from my tripod.

4) The stars appear to trail in all different directions. This is not caused so much by the rotation of the Earth (as we are used) but rather, the effects of a fisheye lens. I posted the image details on my website that bystander linked to. The pano was created by stitching together 8 seperate frames. For each frame, stars that were on the left side are trailed in one direction, while stars on the opposite side are trailed in a different direction. Same for the top.

5) All the data was collected within a 5 hour time span starting around 10:30pm. So we are not seeing the sun rising (or setting). The lights behind the monument are from city lights ~20 miles away.

6) There really was no wildlife that I could see that evening...I am not sure if that is unusual for the area or not?

7) The aspect ratio is "correct". The reason it may appear to have streched vertically is, once again, becuase I used a fisheye lens. When stitching the images together there was some horizontal compression. But that is the nature of the beast.

8) I captured the data for the landscape while the moon was still up. With a camera and a long exposure the ground was properly illumated. I then did a bit of HDR work with it to really enhance the colors and give the "fantasy" appearance.

9) The dirt road is not actually Monument Road - that is on the other side of the structure. The road in the image wraps around the entire monument so you can drive (over many bumps/potholes) around the thing.

10) It is very true that there are alot of artifacts in the image. But as Chris pointed out most of the artifacts in this image are a result of how the data was collected and the steps that were needed to combine all the shots. I freely admit there is scientific inaccurate (like Scorpius being on the wrong side of the Milky Way, or Vega being in the Milky Way). But there are alot of people out there that make wonderful images while trying to stay "true" to either what is seen or what the camera can capture. My goal was different. It was to create an image that connected the Earth to the night sky in a way that leaves the viewer with a sense of awe and wonder. I treat this image (and others like it) as a hybrid of digital art and photography so I am more than willing to sacfrice a little bit of accuracy for a "pretty picture". Plus, I find it fun to try and take dozens of individual images and combine them into a final product!

Well this has been fun, reading everything that has been posted here. There are some artifact that have been posted that I did not even realize until now as well as different perceptions of various elements. Thank you all for your comments!

Cheers,
Robert Arn
http://www.AstroArn.com

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by uppddown » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:36 am

also the moon is not round but kind of egg shaped. you can see this in the large image, there is definaltly a stitch mark close to the lineup of the moon.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Citlali » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:55 pm

Some digital replication (cut-paste) is found throughout the image. Start near Mr. Arn's signature and along the right-side horizon; to hide or mask perhaps an imperfection. The last fence-post on the right and left appears strangely thin, unlike its neighboring fence-post several feet farther away. The left-side paraselene might actually have characteristics of the 22º lunar halo and alpha Hydrae or Alphard combined. The Constellation Leo graces the sky above and the right of this lunar. Mr. Robert Arn unknowingly captures several geosynchronous satellites across the very top. There are so many other artifacts a keen could find and uncover. Thanks you APOD and Mr. ARN.

Re: APOD: Geometers Playground Over Wyoming (2011 Jun 06)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:12 pm

NoelC wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote:"Artifacts" are not "errors".
And "Chris" may not be up on his "marketing speak".
I just want to be clear that most of the artifacts in this image are a consequence of the methodology used to collect the data, and cannot reasonably be considered "processing errors". There would be no reasonable processing techniques that could be used to eliminate these artifacts.

We've seen similar geometric artifacts on other images here- professional images that were not produced with any artistic or aesthetic intent.

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