Starship Asterisk*

by **starman** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:23 pm

With reference to the 'angular size anomaly' it's necessary to remember that the bubble nebula in the photo may well extend out beyond the visible part you can see. What would be better is an image taken in the IR. The OB-association near M52 is very large and dynamic. It spills over into Cepheus nearby.

by **neufer** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:56 pm

Wolf Kotenberg wrote:
By the way, is a black hole considered a star ?

No.

by **Wolf Kotenberg** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:44 pm

I got me a feeling the universe is so big that no matter where I could travel, it would look the same ( caveat- not get real close to any star, including a black hole ) By the way, is a black hole considered a star ?

by **Rolllz** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:14 pm

Indeed the Information supplied in the article is askew. Perhaps a finer degree of editing would have helped.

by **BMAONE23** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:27 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

by **neufer** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:20 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazooka_Joe wrote:
<<Bazooka Joe is a comic strip character, featured on small comics included inside individually-wrapped pieces of Bazooka bubblegum. He wears a black eyepatch, lending him a distinctive appearance. He is one of the more recognizable American advertising characters of the 20th century, due to worldwide distribution, and one of the few identifiable ones associated with a candy.

Bazooka Joe is joined in his various misadventures by a motley crew of characters, including Pesty (formerly Orville), who may be Joe's younger brother, with a 1950s cowboy sombrero; Mort, a gangly boy who always wears his red turtleneck sweater pulled up over his mouth; Joe's tubby pal, Hungry Herman; Joe's girlfriend, Jane; Toughie, a sailor hat-wearing, streetwise type; and Walkie Talkie, a neighborhood mutt. The characters came from the tradition of syndicated kid gang comic strips such as Gene Byrnes' Reg'lar Fellers and Ad Carter's Just Kids.

The comics generally consist of soft, child-friendly jokes, as well as small advertisements for kitschy merchandise one could purchase with enough comics and a few dollars. From the very beginning in 1954, the bottom of the comics included "fortunes" similar to those one would find in a fortune cookie but with a comedic bent.

Sometime between 1952 and 1954, Woody Gelman, the head of Product Development at Topps, approached the cartoonist Wesley Morse to create Bazooka Joe and his Gang. Morse, the original artist on Bazooka Joe, was also the artist for many of the pornographic drawings collected into so-called "Tijuana bibles" or "eight-pagers", popular in the pre-war period, which are considered a precursor to the underground comix of the 1960s and 1970s.

In the Seinfeld episode "The Cafe", Jerry pulls his turtleneck over his mouth while he is staking out a café owner across the street from his window. Jerry jokingly says "Bazooka Joe" to his friend Elaine as a reference to the character Mort from the Bazooka Joe strip.>>

by **StarDust** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:47 pm

I concur with Iron Sun's concise reply that arrived just before my own ramblings. The explanation should have confined the comparison to just the central bubble.

by **StarDust** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:43 pm

To Ann (and others), my thanks for speaking up about your confusion! Misery loves company.
I wanted to teach my niece something about optical illusion and perspective, how the brain (mis)perceives dimensions and distance. So, I slowly went line by line through the accompanying explanation using supplemental gnarled hand gestures and creative analogies, only to watch my careful tutelage fall apart with the sentence "distance estimates for the Bubble Nebula and associated cloud complex are around 11,000 light-years, while star cluster M52 lies nearly 5,000 light-years away."
WTF?? How did I paint myself into a corner that even the tempting but lame offer - "let's go get ice cream" - failed to extricate?
Uncle StarDust isn't often flustered, but Science4Man's math lesson (hate higher math) further obscured the field of view like pigeon droppings on binocular lenses... until I read his completed thought.

I still hope to regain some semblance of credibility with my niece. Hopefully, someone will explain (using layman's English) how a significantly smaller-sized but larger-appearing object is twice as distant? This does not compute.
Googling "distance from earth" did nothing to help as the Bubble is still considered the more distant of the two:
M52 - The distance of this cluster is not very well known; Kenneth Glyn Jones adopts 3,000, Mallas/Kreimer 7,000 light years, while the Sky Catalogue 2000.0 gives 5,200 (i.e., 1,600 pc) and Götz 5,050 light years. Robert Garfinkle, in his "Star Hopping", quotes about 3,000, Harvey Pennington and George Kepple and Glen Sanner's Night Sky Observer's Guide 3,900 light years. REF1- http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m052.html
NGC 7635 - Bubble Nebula: At a distance of 7,100 light-years from Earth, the Bubble Nebula is located in the constellation Cassiopeia and has a diameter of 6 light-years. REF2- http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archiv ... 4/image/a/

by **Iron Sun 254** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:30 pm

Yes, it's just the central bubble that matches the diameter mentioned in the description and that appears smaller than the open cluster.

by **orin stepanek** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:59 pm

I like the bubble nebula it is quite interesting. I don't know if size comparison with M52 is accurate but that takes nothing away from this picture.

by **Science4Man** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:26 pm

Science4Man wrote:
Ann wrote:
I'm a bit surprised at the distance estimates coupled with size estimates for the Bubble Nebula and M52. M52 is around 5,000 light-years away and spans about 25 light-years. The Bubble Nebula is around 11,000 light-years away and spans about ten light-years. Doesn't that mean that the Bubble Nebula ought to look much smaller than than M52, much more so than it actually does?

Ann
Doing the math using the numbers in the article, M52 angular extent is 25/5000 = 5 mrad, the bubble nebula would be 10/11000 = 0.9091 mrad. I could agree (with the article text) if the author was just talking about the bubble alone compared to M52 but the author said Bubble and associated complex.

Sorry for the incomplete thought on my previous entry. The conclusion being, Ann is right! The numbers presented do not appear to match the picture.

by **neufer** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:19 pm

Science4Man wrote:
Ann wrote:
I'm a bit surprised at the distance estimates coupled with size estimates for the Bubble Nebula and M52. M52 is around 5,000 light-years away and spans about 25 light-years. The Bubble Nebula is around 11,000 light-years away and spans about ten light-years. Doesn't that mean that the Bubble Nebula ought to look much smaller than than M52, much more so than it actually does?
Doing the math using the numbers in the article, M52 angular extent is 25/5000 = 5 mrad, the bubble nebula would be 10/11000 = 0.9091 mrad. I could agree if the author was just talking about the bubble alone compared to M52 but the author said Bubble and associated complex.

The Bubble Nebula (NGC 7635) has apparent dimensions of 15′ × 8′
and contains within it a much smaller 10 ly diameter bubble.

M52 with apparent dimensions of 13′ (= 3.8 mrad) is more like 19 ly in diameter.

by **Science4Man** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:19 am

Ann wrote:
I'm a bit surprised at the distance estimates coupled with size estimates for the Bubble Nebula and M52. M52 is around 5,000 light-years away and spans about 25 light-years. The Bubble Nebula is around 11,000 light-years away and spans about ten light-years. Doesn't that mean that the Bubble Nebula ought to look much smaller than than M52, much more so than it actually does?

Ann

Doing the math using the numbers in the article, M52 angular extent is 25/5000 = 5 mrad, the bubble nebula would be 10/11000 = 0.9091 mrad. I could agree if the author was just talking about the bubble alone compared to M52 but the author said Bubble and associated complex.

by **Indigo_Sunrise** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:19 am

Ann wrote:I'm a bit surprised at the distance estimates coupled with size estimates for the Bubble Nebula and M52. M52 is around 5,000 light-years away and spans about 25 light-years. The Bubble Nebula is around 11,000 light-years away and spans about ten light-years. Doesn't that mean that the Bubble Nebula ought to look much smaller than than M52, much more so than it actually does?

Ann

This is what I was thinking, too.

Very beautiful image, though!

by **Ann** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:15 am

This is a very pretty pair. To my knowledge and recollection, the Bubble Nebula is the only bubble-shaped nebula known in our galaxy that is not blown by the central star of a planetary nebula or by a supernova remnant. M52 looks nice in the general neighbourhood, give or take a couple of thousand light-years(

). Note the bright blue star next to the Bubble Nebula. I don't have my software here right now so that I can check it up, but I'm pretty sure that it is an intrinsically really hot and bright blue star.

I'm a bit surprised at the distance estimates coupled with size estimates for the Bubble Nebula and M52. M52 is around 5,000 light-years away and spans about 25 light-years. The Bubble Nebula is around 11,000 light-years away and spans about ten light-years. Doesn't that mean that the Bubble Nebula ought to look much smaller than M52, much more so than it actually does?

Ann

by **Boomer12k** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:45 am

Awesome, I love bubble nebulas. I will try to take a picture when the smoke clears. Jupiter is less than half bright because of the smoke from forest fires.

:--------======= *

by **APOD Robot** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:06 am

The Bubble and M52

Explanation: To the eye, this cosmic composition nicely balances the Bubble Nebula at the lower right with open star cluster M52. The pair would be lopsided on other scales, though. Embedded in a complex of interstellar dust and gas and blown by the winds from a single, massive O-type star, the Bubble Nebula, also known as NGC 7635, is a mere 10 light-years wide. On the other hand, M52 is a rich open cluster of around a thousand stars. The cluster is about 25 light-years across. Seen toward the northern boundary of Cassiopeia, distance estimates for the Bubble Nebula and associated cloud complex are around 11,000 light-years, while star cluster M52 lies nearly 5,000 light-years away. The wide telescopic field of view spans about 1.5 degrees on the sky or three times the apparent size of the Full Moon.

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