APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by JohnD » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:23 pm

JohnD wrote:The comments were as full as could be , in the limited space of an APOD caption, but there is so much there to explain!

The sinuous valley from Plato crater at two o'clock.
Maybe others in that ?ejecta field.
The crater wall collapse (?) at seven o'clock.
The even more sinuous valleys in the area to the right of Plato.
The markings in the Mare, like wrinkles on a sheet.
The Vallis Alpes itself - how? why? etc? Tick! See below
And how old is Plato - looks quite young?
John
Thank you, quigley for asking again, and thank you Ron-Astro, for that excellent fly-past up the Vallis Alpes. It showed me that the "Smiley face" at the far end was the source of the lava tube that runs all the way down the Vallis, with the "mouth" a fissure that up-welled all the lava? But where did all that lava go? The floor of the Vallis surely filled when the Mare Imbrium filled, so this was later. The tube just stops at the end nearest the Mare, halted by the mountains that fill that end of the Vallis, with no sign of pooled lava there.

Oh, and "Guest", athropomorphism can a useful way of putting names to things, but to take it seriously is infantile.

John

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Beyond » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:28 am

Thanks Ann. I had never seen the Lady in the moon before.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Ann » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:10 am

John Shaughnessy wrote:http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a40 ... f4d158.jpg

This is a very interesting discovery I came across a short while ago, from the Earth with a pair of binoculars you can see there is a human face in the Mare Imbrium location on the lunar surface, I inserted arrows to point out such human features like a left ear, a left eye a mouth also there is a right eye that has been damaged but some of it can be made out, not to mention a almost perfect shaped face with a chin that encompasses these human features. This face is about 750 miles across ear to ear check it out on the link above, the odds are off the charts that this is a natural formation. :shock:
I can't spot that face at all, sorry.

I'm satisfied to say hi to The Lady in the Moon. She is very obvious to me. This picture of the Lady is even better, but very small.

Of course, if you ever came to the Moon and started looking for the Lady you would only find craters and lava plains and and things like that, because those are the only things that make up the striking lunar Lady.

Ann

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:47 am

John Shaughnessy wrote:there seem to be more than just that going on here, the geometry on three of the features is just to perfect to be a play on our brains in the pareidolia realm..... :?:
I disagree. It isn't perfect by any means. It's extremely vague and your brain is filling in the pieces to make you think it's perfect.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by John Shaughnessy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:17 am

geckzilla wrote:
John Shaughnessy wrote:not to mention a almost perfect shaped face with a chin that encompasses these human features.
If you overlaid and morphed a human face to try to match this formation, it would look deformed and inhuman. Your brain likes to play tricks on you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
Hi geckzilla , Thanks for the feedback :ssmile: I'm quite familiar with the Greek term Pareidolia, that being said, there seem to be more than just that going on here, the geometry on three of the features is just to perfect to be a play on our brains in the pareidolia realm..... :?:

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:14 am

geckzilla wrote:Let's see, montes and mons are Latin with montes being the plural form of mons so it makes sense to name ranges montes and singular mountains mons. Mont is French. It was also only the third mountain name to be approved by the IAU. Maybe it was only after that the decision was made to ensure all names from then on out were Latin. I have nothing for you but speculation.
Another pure guess might be that it's explicitly named after an Earth formation, so carries the terminology used here. (Blanc isn't Latin, either.)

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Nitpicker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:51 am

rstevenson wrote:
John Shaughnessy wrote:... the odds are off the charts that this is a natural formation. :shock:
I agree. The odds are off the chart that this is a natural formation. :lol2:

Rob
The very short odds aren't on any bookmaker's chart, anyway.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by rstevenson » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:43 am

John Shaughnessy wrote:... the odds are off the charts that this is a natural formation. :shock:
I agree. The odds are off the chart that this is a natural formation. :lol2:

Rob

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:41 am

Nitpicker wrote:Does anyone know if there is a reason why Mont Blanc is the seemingly the only mountain on the Moon which bears an official IAU prefix "Mont", rather than "Mons"?

See:
http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Searc ... C%20montes
Let's see, montes and mons are Latin with montes being the plural form of mons so it makes sense to name ranges montes and singular mountains mons. Mont is French. It was also only the third mountain name to be approved by the IAU. Maybe it was only after that the decision was made to ensure all names from then on out were Latin. I have nothing for you but speculation.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Nitpicker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:31 am

Does anyone know if there is a reason why Mont Blanc is the seemingly the only mountain on the Moon which bears an official IAU prefix "Mont", rather than "Mons"?

See:
http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Searc ... C%20montes

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:27 am

John Shaughnessy wrote:not to mention a almost perfect shaped face with a chin that encompasses these human features.
If you overlaid and morphed a human face to try to match this formation, it would look deformed and inhuman. Your brain likes to play tricks on you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by John Shaughnessy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:20 am

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a40 ... f4d158.jpg

This is a very interesting discovery I came across a short while ago, from the Earth with a pair of binoculars you can see there is a human face in the Mare Imbrium location on the lunar surface, I inserted arrows to point out such human features like a left ear, a left eye a mouth also there is a right eye that has been damaged but some of it can be made out, not to mention a almost perfect shaped face with a chin that encompasses these human features. This face is about 750 miles across ear to ear check it out on the link above, the odds are off the charts that this is a natural formation. :shock:

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Spellshecker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:04 am

Typo alert! ---- "below the boardering mountain range"

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Nitpicker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:13 am

mooonstruk wrote:The massif at far lower right seems to be Mt Huygens. With an elevation of more than 5 km, this is the highest mountain on the Moon. We are actually looking down on a mountain chain on a distant planet.
No, Mons Huygens is at the SE edge of Mare Imbrium, in the Montes Apenninus. We are looking at the Montes Alpes at the NE edge of Mare Imbrium.

Edit reason: Alps has an 'e' on the Moon, but not on Earth.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:31 am

Zoomer wrote:I have no clue what velocity is needed to closely orbit our moon. But with camera tech as it is, there could the possibility of a drone/satellite in very low lunar orbit (initiated by rockets) snapping short exposure frames from a polar orbit. These frames may then used to create a smashing 3D fly-over of the whole orb. Just clear the peaks!
Something like that has been done already. I wouldn't call that a drone, however, as there is little or no independent control. Low orbits around the Moon can only be maintained for short periods, because the Moon has a very uneven gravitational field. So unless you have a lot of fuel to expend, you're typically limited to a few weeks or months before you crash.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Nitpicker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:22 am

Zoomer wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote:
Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:How fun would it be to zoom around the moon with your own remote controlled drone? Or even one owned by NASA or another venture business. It doesn't seem like it would take a lot of fuel to keep it aloft in the moon's low gravity. And hovering above the surface, it might not have issues with the dust. Imagine the scenes cruising the mountain and valleys and what one might discover from the safety of your couch?

http://spacetravelfoundation.blogspot.f ... -with.html

I guess NASA has this covered. Where does one sign up for moon drone driving school?
The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere like Titan does. Solar powered aeronautical craft can be used on some of the outer moons, Mars, Venus, etc. On the Moon you'd need rockets, and that means a system that can only operate for a limited time before landing or crashing, never to fly again.
I have no clue what velocity is needed to closely orbit our moon. But with camera tech as it is, there could the possibility of a drone/satellite in very low lunar orbit (initiated by rockets) snapping short exposure frames from a polar orbit. These frames may then used to create a smashing 3D fly-over of the whole orb. Just clear the peaks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Reco ... ce_Orbiter
The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) is a NASA robotic spacecraft currently orbiting the Moon in an eccentric 30 by 180 km (19 by 112 mi) polar mapping orbit. The LRO mission is a precursor to future human and robotic missions to the Moon by NASA. To this end a detailed mapping program will identify safe landing sites, locate potential resources on the Moon, characterize the radiation environment, and demonstrate new technology.

The probe will make a 3-D map of the Moon's surface and has provided some of the first images of Apollo equipment left on the Moon. The first images from LRO were published on July 2, 2009, showing a region in the lunar highlands south of Mare Nubium (Sea of Clouds).

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Zoomer » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:16 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:How fun would it be to zoom around the moon with your own remote controlled drone? Or even one owned by NASA or another venture business. It doesn't seem like it would take a lot of fuel to keep it aloft in the moon's low gravity. And hovering above the surface, it might not have issues with the dust. Imagine the scenes cruising the mountain and valleys and what one might discover from the safety of your couch?

http://spacetravelfoundation.blogspot.f ... -with.html

I guess NASA has this covered. Where does one sign up for moon drone driving school?
The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere like Titan does. Solar powered aeronautical craft can be used on some of the outer moons, Mars, Venus, etc. On the Moon you'd need rockets, and that means a system that can only operate for a limited time before landing or crashing, never to fly again.
I have no clue what velocity is needed to closely orbit our moon. But with camera tech as it is, there could the possibility of a drone/satellite in very low lunar orbit (initiated by rockets) snapping short exposure frames from a polar orbit. These frames may then used to create a smashing 3D fly-over of the whole orb. Just clear the peaks!

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by mooonstruk » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:45 pm

The massif at far lower right seems to be Mt Huygens. With an elevation of more than 5 km, this is the highest mountain on the Moon. We are actually looking down on a mountain chain on a distant planet.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Guest » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:14 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:And this was a pretty cool video
Yes, very cool. But around the 1 minute mark, as the north (?) end of the valley comes into view, there is a ridge or gulley that seems to run perpendicular to the fun of the valley and the central 'groove' there in. Coincidentally, there are a couple of craters close by that make it look like a 'happy face'. Made me laugh, and then wondered what the 'conspiracy theory guys' would make of that... The original image is nice, but I would like to see a colorized stretch-out image of the grey scale to help reveal some of the hidden structures in the 'flat surface'. I can see circular arc structures and some more linear/angular structures, but I am sure that it is more of a patchwork and the image indicates. probably revealing multiple catastrophic events over time.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:31 pm

quigley wrote:Please tell us how the Lunar Alpine Valley may have been formed. Also, what formed the winding riverbed type valleys? Did the smooth, lava-flooded Mare Imbrium form from the impact breaking the crust to the lava below?
One of the links had this to say -

Seen in this image, Vallis Alpes (Alpine Valley) is a spectacular feature that bisects the Montes Alpes range. This valley was discovered in 1727 by Francesco Bianchini. It extends 166 kilometres from Mare Imbrium, trending north-east to the edge of the Mare Frigoris (Sea of Cold). The valley is narrow at both ends and widens to about 10 kilometres across.

The valley floor is a flat, lava-flooded surface that has narrow sinous ‘rille’ running down the middle. It is generally considered to be a 'graben', an area between two parallel faults which has dropped below the surrounding area. This is believed to have formed after the formation of the basin, but before the full maria lava flows. The rille corresponds to a ‘lava tube’ formed in a later geological episode by high-speed and low viscosity magma.

"SMART-1 is studying the signature of violent processes that took place during the formation of these giant impact basins, as well as the sequence of late volcanic history over the lunar surface until 3000 million years ago,” said ESA’s SMART-1 Project Scientist Bernard Foing.

And this was a pretty cool video
Click to play embedded YouTube video.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:18 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:What - no rocket drones yet?
There's nothing technically challenging in producing a rocket drone. The problem is that the only kind of rockets we know how to make that can generate high thrust require chemical fuel. So unless you have a way of refueling (which seems unlikely on the Moon) you're looking at very limited use.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by quigley » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:57 pm

Please tell us how the Lunar Alpine Valley may have been formed. Also, what formed the winding riverbed type valleys? Did the smooth, lava-flooded Mare Imbrium form from the impact breaking the crust to the lava below?

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:53 pm

♫ ♪ Rocket drone, hanging by its fuse out there alone ♪ ♫

Yea, I think it's gonna be a long long time. :)

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:37 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:How fun would it be to zoom around the moon with your own remote controlled drone? Or even one owned by NASA or another venture business. It doesn't seem like it would take a lot of fuel to keep it aloft in the moon's low gravity. And hovering above the surface, it might not have issues with the dust. Imagine the scenes cruising the mountain and valleys and what one might discover from the safety of your couch?

http://spacetravelfoundation.blogspot.f ... -with.html

I guess NASA has this covered. Where does one sign up for moon drone driving school?
The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere like Titan does. Solar powered aeronautical craft can be used on some of the outer moons, Mars, Venus, etc. On the Moon you'd need rockets, and that means a system that can only operate for a limited time before landing or crashing, never to fly again.
What - no rocket drones yet? Or maybe the moon is a good place to experiment with the space elevator?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

A Drone on a Rope? Finding the right rope for the job might be tough to swing.

Re: APOD: Plato and the Lunar Alps (2014 Dec 04)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:00 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:How fun would it be to zoom around the moon with your own remote controlled drone? Or even one owned by NASA or another venture business. It doesn't seem like it would take a lot of fuel to keep it aloft in the moon's low gravity. And hovering above the surface, it might not have issues with the dust. Imagine the scenes cruising the mountain and valleys and what one might discover from the safety of your couch?

http://spacetravelfoundation.blogspot.f ... -with.html

I guess NASA has this covered. Where does one sign up for moon drone driving school?
The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere like Titan does. Solar powered aeronautical craft can be used on some of the outer moons, Mars, Venus, etc. On the Moon you'd need rockets, and that means a system that can only operate for a limited time before landing or crashing, never to fly again.

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