APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03)

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by alter-ego » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:32 am

Mattunes wrote:Anybody have an explanation for the striations and clear curving/bending of the "jets"? They look suspiciously like being under magnetic field influence...
The jet curvature direction looks consistent with the rotation axis. I'm not aware of any magnetic field and wouldn't expect one from it of any significance. Like you spinning in a circle holding a water hose, ejected particles from the rotating comet follow the same dynamics. The video shows the comet from the other side. It is rotating counter-clockwise whereas in the APOD view, it is rotating clockwise. Therefore the jets would appear to be curving to the left.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
CometPlumes_Rosetta_2048.jpg

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Mattunes » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:31 pm

Anybody have an explanation for the striations and clear curving/bending of the "jets"? They look suspiciously like being under magnetic field influence...

Re: Stars and Blobs

by alter-ego » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:57 am

FloridaMike wrote:
alter-ego wrote:There's a question about how many, if any, stars are visible in today's APOD, ... ... there are roughly 50 to 100 specks that don't map to stars (including the foreground specks).
YOU MISSED ONE!
I admit I can get a terminator-like obsession for perfection, but what you say is true; most likely more the one. In fact, there were a few specks that I "deselected" because their change in position (still within the little yellow circle) I judged as anonymously high.

Re: Stars and Blobs

by FloridaMike » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:33 pm

alter-ego wrote:There's a question about how many, if any, stars are visible in today's APOD, ... ... there are roughly 50 to 100 specks that don't map to stars (including the foreground specks).
YOU MISSED ONE!

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Ann » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:59 pm

Great work, alter-ego! :D

Ann

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by alter-ego » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:33 pm

geckzilla wrote:Nice work, Sleuthhound.
Yeah, and a little bit o' luck!

Thanks geck! :)

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by geckzilla » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:36 am

Nice work, Sleuthhound.

Re: Stars and Blobs

by alter-ego » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:05 am

There's a question about how many, if any, stars are visible in today's APOD, and among all those specks and blobs are any bits from the comet? Certainly, specks visible in the foreground, within shadowed regions are not stars, and it will remain a question which of those are artifacts or real objects. However, in the region surrounding the comet, It's not fully appreciated how many bona-fide stars there are. In the hover image I circled >230 specks that match catalogued star positions typically < 2 arcminutes. The positions aren't exact mainly because I had to scale and rotate a Stellarium star field to match the specks in the APOD. I'll say that this only works if a star field has been identified. Random speck positions will in no way map to the degree they do here.
  1. Clicking "image 1" should give you a full-size view. Not all circled stars may visible here because a higher magnification is required and/or my posted image is not as good as the original image I searched. However, in this view, there are roughly 50 to 100 specks that don't map to stars (including the foreground specks). So, about 75% of all the visible specs are stars, give or take.
  2. I like the blink-comparison viewing the hover-image after adjusting the browser magnification to 250% or higher.
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by MargaritaMc » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:57 pm

FloridaMike wrote:Ok, we are not accustomed to seeing a brightly lit objects with stars in the background. Has the overexposure in this image revealed background stars or are the flecks of light surrounding the comet from some other source?
I've posted a later image from the Rosetta NAVCAM on the Rosetta thread in Breaking Science News . The text accompanying the image in the ESA Rosetta blog specifically mentions "little white blobs" ... If anyone is interested, have a look-see! :wink:

M

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by geckzilla » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:18 am

CharliePatriot wrote:
CharliePatriot wrote:Not on topic but have a question. Is the Rosetta still on board the comet.? Haven't been following of late.
Sorry, I meant Phylae, or whatever the heck that spacecraft is named that touched down on the darn thing.
Rosetta is currently orbiting the comet. Philae is still resting on the surface and awaiting more sunlight to reach it as the comet approaches the Sun.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by CharliePatriot » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:07 am

CharliePatriot wrote:Not on topic but have a question. Is the Rosetta still on board the comet.? Haven't been following of late.
Sorry, I meant Phylae, or whatever the heck that spacecraft is named that touched down on the darn thing.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by CharliePatriot » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:01 am

Not on topic but have a question. Is the Rosetta still on board the comet.? Haven't been following of late.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by boofer » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:58 pm

DavidLeodis wrote:So which came first - the chicken or the egg? :)

If you wonder why I'm talking about that here use the "active topic of research" link. :wink:
Clearly the chicken, those eggs look fresh :P

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Chris Peterson » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:27 pm

geckzilla wrote:Thanks, I needed some reassurance tonight that I'm not completely nuts. The abstract is fine. I'm not really that interested in comet clumps at this moment.
It's a pretty interesting paper. I've had it sitting on my table for a few days, but hadn't gotten to it yet (or the other ones in this issue of Science, dedicated to the Rosetta mission).

Grains are detected using multiple images aligned on stars, with bound and unbound particles identified by their trajectories (which also has to take into account the spacecraft motion).

Meter-sized particles are not being ejected. At perihelion, activity is high enough that some bodies of this size are released, but with ejection velocities too low to allow most to escape. So they end up in bound orbits. Fortunately for the Rosetta spacecraft, the density of such bodies is very low. Several hundred bound grains were detected, with sizes in the centimeter range. Again, these large particles are ejected at a low enough velocity that they don't escape. Particles up to that same size range were observed escaping, as well.

Most interesting was the observation that the most of the scattered light we're seeing off the dust is coming from particles in the 0.1-1 mm size range, not micrometer sized particles. I think that was somewhat unexpected. Everyone is looking to see how all these numbers change as the comet gets closer to the Sun.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Chris Peterson » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:17 pm

Rusty Brown in Cda wrote:If this is the tail coming off a comet, why is it apparently pointing toward the sun (off the top of the picture)?
This is not the tail. This is dust being ejected, which forms the coma (and is relatively isotropic). The dust tail is swept out of the coma and other ejected particles as they get farther from the nucleus. This close to the nucleus, all the particle motion is determined by the ejection dynamics; solar wind and radiation pressure have an insignificant impact over such a short distance.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Rusty Brown in Cda » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:47 pm

If this is the tail coming off a comet, why is it apparently pointing toward the sun (off the top of the picture)?

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by DavidLeodis » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:04 pm

So which came first - the chicken or the egg? :)

If you wonder why I'm talking about that here use the "active topic of research" link. :wink:

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by MargaritaMc » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:44 am

geckzilla wrote:Thanks, I needed some reassurance tonight that I'm not completely nuts. ...
:lol2: I know the sensation! However, if you were to develop a passion for comet clumps, there's a nice blog post at the ESA Rosetta blog, enticingly entitled GIADA’S DUST MEASUREMENTS: 3.7-3.4 AU ...
I liked this bit:
we infer that the bound grains varied from 4 cm to 2 m*...

(*Editor’s note: In a follow-up discussion, I asked Alessandra and Marco about the possible impact – literally – of ‘grains’ up to 2 metres in size on the spacecraft, but there is no need to panic: according to their space density, Rosetta needs to travel for many centuries at a speed of 1 m/s before impacting even just one of them!)
:shock:

M

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by geckzilla » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:39 am

Thanks, I needed some reassurance tonight that I'm not completely nuts. The abstract is fine. I'm not really that interested in comet clumps at this moment.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by MargaritaMc » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:58 am

geckzilla wrote: Don't hold me to this, but I think I read somewhere that those are meters-sized particles coming off the comet.
Science 23 January 2015:
Vol. 347 no. 6220
DOI: 10.1126/science.aaa3905

Research Article
Dust measurements in the coma of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko inbound to the Sun
Alessandra Rotundi, Holger Sierks, Vincenzo Della Corte, Marco Fulle, et al

Abstract

Critical measurements for understanding accretion and the dust/gas ratio in the solar nebula, where planets were forming 4.5 billion years ago, are being obtained by the GIADA (Grain Impact Analyser and Dust Accumulator) experiment on the European Space Agency’s Rosetta spacecraft orbiting comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. Between 3.6 and 3.4 astronomical units inbound, GIADA and OSIRIS (Optical, Spectroscopic, and Infrared Remote Imaging System) detected 35 outflowing grains of mass 10−10 to 10−7 kilograms, and 48 grains of mass 10−5 to 10−2 kilograms, respectively. Combined with gas data from the MIRO (Microwave Instrument for the Rosetta Orbiter) and ROSINA (Rosetta Orbiter Spectrometer for Ion and Neutral Analysis) instruments, we find a dust/gas mass ratio of 4 ± 2 averaged over the sunlit nucleus surface. A cloud of larger grains also encircles the nucleus in bound orbits from the previous perihelion. The largest orbiting clumps are meter-sized, confirming the dust/gas ratio of 3 inferred at perihelion from models of dust comae and trails.
The paper now seems to be behind a paywal, geck, but I have a pdf copy on my computer.

M

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by alter-ego » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:32 am

Mulutunnel wrote:At least one of the light specs is clearly in front of the comet; the one spaced down a bit below the "throat". Maybe just a pixel misbehaving? Most of the rest of them look like background stars to me.
There are many artifacts in this image, and many stars. I was lucky and found a couple dozen stars surrounding the comet of which the brightest are identified. Additional fainter stars formed cleanly identifiable asterisms. In particular in the region near λ Cas had a near perfect match for over a dozen stars. Even though the comet's predicted viewing position wrt Rosetta was off by about 5°(in Cepheus), I couldn't identify any asterisms at all there. For me, it was the patch of stars near λ Cas anchored the comet's position.
67P/C-G in Cassiopeia
67P/C-G in Cassiopeia

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Mulutunnel » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:08 pm

At least one of the light specs is clearly in front of the comet; the one spaced down a bit below the "throat". Maybe just a pixel misbehaving? Most of the rest of them look like background stars to me.

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by Chris Peterson » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:59 pm

rstevenson wrote:Close-up on this APOD shows a lot of "stuff" around those tiny dots of light. Can some knowledgable person say what it is?

This is a 1000% zoom on the two bright spots near the bottom-right part of the comet.
I'd say JPEG artifacts, especially given the 8x8 structure (which is a function of how JPEG data is encoded).

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by rstevenson » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:50 pm

Close-up on this APOD shows a lot of "stuff" around those tiny dots of light. Can some knowledgable person say what it is?

This is a 1000% zoom on the two bright spots near the bottom-right part of the comet.
px.jpg
px.jpg (6.75 KiB) Viewed 153249 times
Rob

Re: APOD: Jets from Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko (2015 Feb 03

by geckzilla » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:33 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
FloridaMike wrote:Ok, we are not accustomed to seeing a brightly lit objects with stars in the background. Has the overexposure in this image revealed background stars or are the flecks of light surrounding the comet from some other source?
Don't hold me to this, but I think I read somewhere that those are meters-sized particles coming off the comet.
Comets don't produce meter-scale particles, at least not very often. The dust particles produced by a comet are mostly in the micrometer size range (which we see in the jets) with some pebble-sized bodies produced, as well.
Yeah, I wish I could remember where I read that, but can't seem to find it. There are rather large bits floating around it, though. Large enough to form isolated dots in an image. A simple sequence of images would easily show whether the dots are in the foreground or whether they are distant stars or even artifacts. But, you know... that image release policy...

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