APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Chris Peterson » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:36 pm

madtom1999 wrote:I've seen a few of these jets and one thing strikes me - one jet is often more linear and better defined than the other. Is this because they are electrically polarised and one consists of electrons and negatively charged ions and is more easily disrupted and the other is positive ions and so less easily disrupted?
No. Certainly, the jets do contain charged particles and are influenced to some degree by the local magnetic environment. But mostly we're just seeing the effects of turbulence, which mixes things up randomly, and the interaction of the jets with all the surrounding gas, which is far from uniform.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by madtom1999 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:21 pm

I've seen a few of these jets and one thing strikes me - one jet is often more linear and better defined than the other. Is this because they are electrically polarised and one consists of electrons and negatively charged ions and is more easily disrupted and the other is positive ions and so less easily disrupted?

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by starsurfer » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:56 pm

geckzilla wrote:I've made a mistake by calling this two sets of data. It does in fact contain some new data for a total of four sets. Last I looked at this, it wasn't possible to create a complete color image with this quality, so I should have realized this sooner! Here are the details on the Hubble Heritage site:
http://heritage.stsci.edu/2015/42/fast_facts.html

I just have to send Bo an email now... :D
It gets complicated doesn't it?! :lol2:
Bo Reipurth is one of the greatest researchers of star formation, some of his papers on Herbig Haro objects are exceptional!
Here is another image of this area from the Gemini Observatory.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by geckzilla » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:27 am

I've made a mistake by calling this two sets of data. It does in fact contain some new data for a total of four sets. Last I looked at this, it wasn't possible to create a complete color image with this quality, so I should have realized this sooner! Here are the details on the Hubble Heritage site:
http://heritage.stsci.edu/2015/42/fast_facts.html

I just have to send Bo an email now... :D

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by geckzilla » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:19 am

Alohascope wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
Stardaddyed3 wrote:Is this an actual image or artist rendition?
Actual image. Do note that some weirdness with the colors is occurring because the cyan channel and the orange channel do not match up entirely due to the very fast movement of the jet. The two datasets used to create the color composite were not captured at the same time. Usually, this doesn't matter, but these jets are moving really fast. Also keep in mind this is not an RGB image.
Actual image .. but not an actual photograph.
"Constructed from Hubble Space Telescope image data, the stunning scene ..." As you said Geck, constructed from two sets of data.
It is as much an actual photograph as it is an actual image. The two sets of data are also themselves photographs. Combining them into a single color composite doesn't suddenly make it not a photograph.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:36 am

If you read the paper I'd like to know if you think that a fourth dimension could be a torus and that it may explain many of the shapes we see in nature? And you thought the apple and Newton was all about gravity. :wink: Food for rethinking :?:

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Alohascope » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:16 am

Are the jets spinning? If so are they spinning in the same or opposite directions?

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Alohascope » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:11 am

geckzilla wrote:
Stardaddyed3 wrote:Is this an actual image or artist rendition?
Actual image. Do note that some weirdness with the colors is occurring because the cyan channel and the orange channel do not match up entirely due to the very fast movement of the jet. The two datasets used to create the color composite were not captured at the same time. Usually, this doesn't matter, but these jets are moving really fast. Also keep in mind this is not an RGB image.
Actual image .. but not an actual photograph.
"Constructed from Hubble Space Telescope image data, the stunning scene ..." As you said Geck, constructed from two sets of data.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by heehaw » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm

It is so wonderful to get away from politics and look out at the vast Universe, indifferent to our petty squabbles!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:30 pm

Beyond wrote:
Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:I'm usually curious why things happen but after glancing at this, I know why I became a pharmacist. Anyone up to give a Readers Digest version? I have enjoyed the idea of today's APOD but what is in its guts may essentially be indigestible. :p: Relativistic jet material starts on page 44 though I suspect it's all pretty relevant. I hope.
My Reader's Digest version is: The words are too small and there's way too many of them. I suspect that neufer's indigestible roughage is a lot easier to take, for most people.
That's why you became a Pharmacist, Ron? I would have thought it was because you liked to try and decode Doctors handwriting. :lol2:
When you dispense Xanax for Zantac it doesn't improve your anxiety or your digestion but at least the patient doesn't care that his belly hurts. I'm speaking only hypothetically!! Electronic medical records will help with that issue – mostly. Not trying to scare anyone but – know your medications!!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Beyond » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:59 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:I'm usually curious why things happen but after glancing at this, I know why I became a pharmacist. Anyone up to give a Readers Digest version? I have enjoyed the idea of today's APOD but what is in its guts may essentially be indigestible. :p: Relativistic jet material starts on page 44 though I suspect it's all pretty relevant. I hope.
My Reader's Digest version is: The words are too small and there's way too many of them. I suspect that neufer's indigestible roughage is a lot easier to take, for most people.
That's why you became a Pharmacist, Ron? I would have thought it was because you liked to try and decode Doctors handwriting. :lol2:

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:37 pm

I'm usually curious why things happen but after glancing at this, I know why I became a pharmacist. Anyone up to give a Readers Digest version? I have enjoyed the idea of today's APOD but what is in its guts may essentially be indigestible. :p: Relativistic jet material starts on page 44 though I suspect it's all pretty relevant. I hope.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by MarkBour » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:57 pm

Nature does a pretty good job of drawing straight lines!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:48 pm

Ted11 wrote:It looks like there are two wider jets perpendicular to the jets under discussion. What's the explanation for these?
Within these dense clouds of material, more than one star is born at around the same time. You can several cavities being carved out by stars in different positions. The large one in the upper left is a roughly cylindrical cavity with a jet at its center axis pointing back to yet another young stellar object forming alongside the two "light saber" jets. To the lower right is a smaller cavity punched out by yet another young stellar object.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Ted11 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:12 pm

It looks like there are two wider jets perpendicular to the jets under discussion. What's the explanation for these?

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by bystander » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:36 pm

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by starsurfer » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:15 pm

This is an otherworldy and mysterious scene, almost looks like something out of Doctor Who!! :D
This area is part of the M78 complex, which has many other Herbig Haro objects associated with it.
Also may the Force be with everyone!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:51 pm

De58te wrote:I noticed a discrepancy concerning events that contradict the absolute speed of light in a vacuum. In the link saying "opposing jets are blasting out" we find that on February 2014, Herbig-Haro 24 was some 1,500 light-years away. In today's APOD we learn that H-H 24 is 1,300 light-years away. That means in just under 2 years, H-H 24 has traveled almost 200 light-years closer to Earth! Shouldn't this take 200 years even if H-H 24 were traveling at the speed of light? My Gawd, at this rate Herbig-Hero 24 will arrive at Earth in about 13 years!
Indeed, there is a conspiracy among governments and the world's top scientists to hide the fact that the Earth will be destroyed in 13 years. Somebody's head is going to roll for allowing this updated distance information to get published!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by peterbradford » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:37 pm

Wait! That's not a whale, bottom right. It's Douglas Adams' Salmon of Doubt!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by De58te » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:12 pm

I noticed a discrepancy concerning events that contradict the absolute speed of light in a vacuum. In the link saying "opposing jets are blasting out" we find that on February 2014, Herbig-Haro 24 was some 1,500 light-years away. In today's APOD we learn that H-H 24 is 1,300 light-years away. That means in just under 2 years, H-H 24 has traveled almost 200 light-years closer to Earth! Shouldn't this take 200 years even if H-H 24 were traveling at the speed of light? My Gawd, at this rate Herbig-Hero 24 will arrive at Earth in about 13 years!

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by BMAONE23 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:57 pm

Here is a 3D zoom in to HH24
Click to play embedded YouTube video.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by JohnD » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Thank you, Art!
Disappointed though. Thought we had discovered Ringworld.
John

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by neufer » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:24 pm

JohnD wrote:
How much thrust would those jets produce?

If they didn't balance would the protostar go careering off out of the dust cloud?
The jet velocity is only about 0.1% the speed of light so this is more like directed solar wind than supernova explosion.

A goodly fraction of a solar mass would have to be ejected asymmetrically in order for the motion to be noticed at all.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:03 pm

Stardaddyed3 wrote:Is this an actual image or artist rendition?
Actual image. Do note that some weirdness with the colors is occurring because the cyan channel and the orange channel do not match up entirely due to the very fast movement of the jet. The two datasets used to create the color composite were not captured at the same time. Usually, this doesn't matter, but these jets are moving really fast. Also keep in mind this is not an RGB image.

Re: APOD: Herbig-Haro 24 (2015 Dec 18)

by Stardaddyed3 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:37 pm

Is this an actual image or artist rendition?

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