Starship Asterisk*

by **FieryIce** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:48 pm

RyGardner wrote: living arrogantly on the surface, be foolish or naive in doing so?

Any thoughts?

Ryan

I think most governments and military organizations have an underground contingency plan, even though it would be for a select few. The only place somewhat safe under adverse conditions would be underground; I think a USA president said something to that effect in a speech once in reference to nuclear explosions.

by **AZJames** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:26 am

Huge worms on Mars? Oh, dear! Maybe we should consider renaming the planet "Dune".

I couldn't resist!

by **makc** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:07 pm

cosmo_uk wrote:huge worms like off the tremors? That would explain lines and holes

worms crawling in nearly straight lines? no, thanks, I think I will stick with star wars theory.

by **craterchains** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:26 pm

THX1138 wrote:Thanks Chains, always the gentelman.
Q Where can I locate these old astronomers notes on line I dare ask?

Here is a link that shows the old astronomers were indeed taking photos of the moon, at least, which would also indicate they would have taken many of Mars also. Check this one out from Dr. Wood of the Lunar Photo of the Day site. (LPOD)

http://www.lpod.org/?m=20070701

Just an FYI for those interested in our rich observational history of our solar system. I also am thankful for the image provided by Xavier Debeerst.

Norval

by **iamlucky13** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:29 pm

THX1138 wrote:exactly when will this next pass of that ( MRO ) take place, anyone here have that info.
Speaking on the previous statement by ( iamlucky13 ) I wouldn't be surprised if they give it a try on a future pass.
I would certainly hope that NASA will see fit to do this on the very next pass, if not a few after that as well, i can't imagine anything else being of higher priority and i will / let us hope / that this assumption is correct.

I don't know where to find precise orbital details for MRO, but I do know one of the top priorities right now is getting the maximum detailed coverage possible of the areas proposed for the Phoenix Polar Lander. It's scheduled to launch soon, and they want to maximize their knowledge of the landing sites so they pick the best one. It's also supporting the Mars Rovers, scouting possible landing sites for the 2009 Mars Science Laboratory, and adding to the global map of the planet...there may be other features equally as interesting out there still.

Anyway, the orbit can only be controlled within the limits of the onboard fuel. Beyond that, it is in a polar orbit so that the rotation of the planet brings a different strip of land with each pass. I'm certain if MRO passes reasonably over these holes again they will take as many pictures as they can get, but I'm not sure how easy it is to arrange, especially when scouting for the landers presents a time pressure. Photographing the holes is limited only by the life of the MRO.

by **cosmo_uk** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:31 am

huge worms like off the tremors? That would explain lines and holes

by **makc** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:58 am

it is just that I was under impression that in 19th century no astronomer was actually making any photos at all, I thought they all simply drawed what they saw (as in martian map case). now when I read up a bit on subject, I see that is not entirely correct. yet, I would like to see those pictures you are talking about.

by **craterchains** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:52 am

Makc
I doubt that "all" would love to see those images, and I highly doubt that APOD would ever put such photos up. If I and others have had access to a couple of them, I am sure that the founders of APOD would have much better success in finding some really great ones.

The holes on Mars could be caused by several possible ways. Based on all the other evidence, extrapolation of the correct answer becomes possible.

by **THX1138** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:22 pm

exactly when will this next pass of that ( MRO ) take place, anyone here have that info.
Speaking on the previous statement by ( iamlucky13 ) I wouldn't be surprised if they give it a try on a future pass.
I would certainly hope that NASA will see fit to do this on the very next pass, if not a few after that as well, i can't imagine anything else being of higher priority and i will / let us hope / that this assumption is correct.

by **iamlucky13** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:40 am

AZJames wrote:Interesting! I understand that the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) has ground penetrating RADAR (on board primarily to look for subsurface water ice deposits) with a resolution of about 30 ft. Seems to me that looking for subsurface voids (lava tubes?) would be duck soup. Made to order for locating underground, radiation proof habitats.

The radar on MRO has a depth resolution of 7 meters, but a lateral resolution of only 300 meters. That may be good enough to pick out a lava tube this big, but I don't know enough about the method to be sure. I wouldn't be surprised if they give it a try on a future pass.

They are, it should be noted, pretty confident of the lava tubes in the area. This image shows the context of the holes on the slope of a volcano.

by **makc** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:41 pm

craterchains wrote:The photos of Mars from around the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries...

I think we all would love to see these.

by **craterchains** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:24 pm

As makc gave a good link to start from we will start there. Some, or even many astronomers saw those lines on Mars. With the discovery of the "holes" on Mars being talked about here it gives rise as to why there are these holes. Possibly lava tubes, maybe even drained aquifers, and then there is the one you won't see on your 6 o'clock news, yet is a possibility of great import and that is underground installations. Apparently destroyed now.

The photos of Mars from around the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries show quite clearly, as do their drawings, that Mars had some unique features that are no longer there. Of course the "why" they are no longer visible won't be on the 6 o'clock news either, at least not the truth.

by **makc** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:38 am

THX1138 wrote:Q Where can I locate these old astronomers notes on line I dare ask?

hint! hint!

by **THX1138** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:04 am

Thanks Chains, always the gentelman.
Q Where can I locate these old astronomers notes on line I dare ask?

Thank you for your consideration

I never met a weapon I didn't like ( Ronald Raygun 1989 )

by **craterchains** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:40 pm

THX1138 wrote:exactly, why don't they aim that dude right down the tube and give us some answers in short order?
In any event, now that NASA has finally decided to let the peoples of earth know; what has been evedent to half the world anyway for almost three years, that. Hey guess what, Mars had oceans guys, boy wasn't that a shock to us all!
The bigger question, to me, remains. HOW LONG did mars have these oceans.
And the reality of the matter, If indeed mars had oceans long enough for life to develop within them.
Does anyone at all have any doubt whatsoever that underground water, unfrozen is going to be teeming with life. I should hope not it will be a practical certainty.

No doubt it should have life if liquid water is present underground. At least microbial.

How long has the oceans of Mars been gone? When did they dissapear?

Look at all the old astronomers notes. The answers are there.

Norval

by **makc** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:54 pm

[u]RJN[/u] wrote:Quite possibly, the spots are entrances to deep underground caves capable of protecting Martian life, were it to exist.

Do not know how "official" is that. I still waiting for someone to convert j2k image relevant portion into something editable.

by **jumpjack** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:01 pm

BTW, which is the official NASA opinion about these holes/lakes?

by **THX1138** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:44 pm

exactly, why don't they aim that dude right down the tube and give us some answers in short order?
In any event, now that NASA has finally decided to let the peoples of earth know; what has been evedent to half the world anyway for almost three years, that. Hey guess what, Mars had oceans guys, boy wasn't that a shock to us all!
The bigger question, to me, remains. HOW LONG did mars have these oceans.
And the reality of the matter, If indeed mars had oceans long enough for life to develop within them.
Does anyone at all have any doubt whatsoever that underground water, unfrozen is going to be teeming with life. I should hope not it will be a practical certainty.

by **AZJames** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:32 am

iamlucky13 wrote:Hey all, I just saw this featured on Slashdot.

Interesting! I understand that the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) has ground penetrating RADAR (on board primarily to look for subsurface water ice deposits) with a resolution of about 30 ft. Seems to me that looking for subsurface voids (lava tubes?) would be duck soup. Made to order for locating underground, radiation proof habitats.

by **makc** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:38 am

so I was sayin what you linked to does not cut it.

by **jumpjack** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:07 am

makc wrote:
jumpjack wrote:Links to images:
...
Jeanne(-5.636 N, 241.259 E) (subject of this thread)
the TIFF version has this "lake" in about 10x10 pixels resolution.

what do you mean?

I need this kind of resolution:
http://lc84.altervista.org/marte/immagini/MarsCave1.png

by **makc** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:15 am

jumpjack wrote:Links to images:
...
Jeanne(-5.636 N, 241.259 E) (subject of this thread)

the TIFF version has this "lake" in about 10x10 pixels resolution.

by **jumpjack** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:16 pm

Links to images:

Craters?
Dena (-6.084 N, 239.061 E)
Chloe (-4.926 N, 239.193 E)
Wendy (-8.099 N, 240.242 E)
Annie (-6.267 N, 240.005 E)

Lakes?
Abbey (-8.498 N, 240.349 E)
Nikki (-8.498 N, 240.349 E) (as above)
Jeanne(-5.636 N, 241.259 E) (subject of this thread)

by **jumpjack** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:13 pm

My two cents about mars "holes":
http://lc84.altervista.org/marte/buchi%20marte.html

It's in Italian, but maybe online translators can help you.
In a few words: no holes, "just" lakes. WATER lakes (also water appears BLACK from space, being it reflecting SPACE rather than SKY).
meteor crater + ice + volcanic region = water lake

i.e., ice in a meteor crater was melt by underground lava thus creating the lake.
About low aire pressure and water vapour... don't know, maybe ther's actually a water spring in the crater? It would freeze under normal circumstances, but it wouldn't if warmed up by underground lava!

But I don't think ALL "seven sisters" are lakes: most of them are just deep craters; but I am not able to download high resolution images of them: can anybody help? Can anybody download hi-res images of 7-sisters and post crops of the interesing parts?
Thanks.

by **THX1138** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:24 am

The answer is so simple that you have all overlooked it.
That is the 9 hole as Martian golf goes.

I never met a weapon I didn't like ( Ronald Raygun 1989 )

Starship Asterisk*

A Hole in Mars (APOD 28 May 2007)

Post a reply

Expand view Topic review: A Hole in Mars (APOD 28 May 2007)

Re: Philosophical curiousity