APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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Chris Peterson
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:59 pm

johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:46 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:28 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:06 pm


I'm not Victor, but I thought they might just be unicode characters. His "square" is really two chars side-by-side. I thought they might be one of the "geometric shapes" shown here - https://www.unicodepedia.com/groups/geometric-shapes/ - but none exactly match what Victor used. Though the "black vertical rectagle" comes close: ▮, but it's not big enough! Can it be colorized with the "font color" tool in the post editor? Let's see: ▮▮▮. Yup! But there is also space between successive chars, which Victor's double black box chars don't have. I still suspect it's a unicode char however.
Sure. You can just look at it in the quoted text. It's Unicode U+2588, Full Block. In Windows you type it using ALT-219 (█) or a pair of those (██). As an ordinary character, you can apply whatever styling BBCODE offers: .
Thanks. That's it alright. More here - http://www.unicode-symbol.com/block/Block_Elements.html

But how did you determine that is was U+2588? How did you "just look at in in the quoted text"? In my browser reply window it still shows up as a black block.
I pasted it into a text editor and looked at the coding. There are also a ton of online Unicode decoders, like this one that you can paste a character or a string into and get the decoded version.
Chris

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:14 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:59 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:46 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:28 pm


Sure. You can just look at it in the quoted text. It's Unicode U+2588, Full Block. In Windows you type it using ALT-219 (█) or a pair of those (██). As an ordinary character, you can apply whatever styling BBCODE offers: .
Thanks. That's it alright. More here - http://www.unicode-symbol.com/block/Block_Elements.html

But how did you determine that is was U+2588? How did you "just look at in in the quoted text"? In my browser reply window it still shows up as a black block.
I pasted it into a text editor and looked at the coding. There are also a ton of online Unicode decoders, like this one that you can paste a character or a string into and get the decoded version.
What text editor? I had tried pasting the block into a .txt file on Windows and then using the Elvis editor (a unix Vi clone) to look at the hex codes, but ended up with the three-char 0xE29688. I guess this is some unicode encoding conversion thing going on that I don't understand.

Also, nice decoding tool!
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:30 pm

johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:14 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:59 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:46 pm


Thanks. That's it alright. More here - http://www.unicode-symbol.com/block/Block_Elements.html

But how did you determine that is was U+2588? How did you "just look at in in the quoted text"? In my browser reply window it still shows up as a black block.
I pasted it into a text editor and looked at the coding. There are also a ton of online Unicode decoders, like this one that you can paste a character or a string into and get the decoded version.
What text editor? I had tried pasting the block into a .txt file on Windows and then using the Elvis editor (a unix Vi clone) to look at the hex codes, but ended up with the three-char 0xE29688. I guess this is some unicode encoding conversion thing going on that I don't understand.

Also, nice decoding tool!
Those three bytes are the UTF-8 encoding for the Full Block character. Almost all webpages use UTF-8. My text editor, Notepad++, can show characters in most formats.
Chris

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:43 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:30 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:14 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:59 pm


I pasted it into a text editor and looked at the coding. There are also a ton of online Unicode decoders, like this one that you can paste a character or a string into and get the decoded version.
What text editor? I had tried pasting the block into a .txt file on Windows and then using the Elvis editor (a unix Vi clone) to look at the hex codes, but ended up with the three-char 0xE29688. I guess this is some unicode encoding conversion thing going on that I don't understand.

Also, nice decoding tool!
Those three bytes are the UTF-8 encoding for the Full Block character. Almost all webpages use UTF-8. My text editor, Notepad++, can show characters in most formats.
I had used Notepad++ as well, but can't find a way to display hex codes there either. Even tried installing/enabling its hex editor plug-in but that failed due to some obscure 32-bit issue that I tired of battling. Have to reinstall Notepad++ now.
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:47 pm

johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:43 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:30 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:14 pm


What text editor? I had tried pasting the block into a .txt file on Windows and then using the Elvis editor (a unix Vi clone) to look at the hex codes, but ended up with the three-char 0xE29688. I guess this is some unicode encoding conversion thing going on that I don't understand.

Also, nice decoding tool!
Those three bytes are the UTF-8 encoding for the Full Block character. Almost all webpages use UTF-8. My text editor, Notepad++, can show characters in most formats.
I had used Notepad++ as well, but can't find a way to display hex codes there either. Even tried installing/enabling its hex editor plug-in but that failed due to some obscure 32-bit issue that I tired of battling. Have to reinstall Notepad++ now.
Visual Studio Code (which you can install separately from Visual Studio) is also an extremely nice text editor, and one which can show hex values and common encodings.
Chris

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:21 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:47 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:43 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:30 pm

Those three bytes are the UTF-8 encoding for the Full Block character. Almost all webpages use UTF-8. My text editor, Notepad++, can show characters in most formats.
I had used Notepad++ as well, but can't find a way to display hex codes there either. Even tried installing/enabling its hex editor plug-in but that failed due to some obscure 32-bit issue that I tired of battling. Have to reinstall Notepad++ now.
Visual Studio Code (which you can install separately from Visual Studio) is also an extremely nice text editor, and one which can show hex values and common encodings.
Thanks. I got Notepad++ to install the HEX viewer plug-in by first installing the 32-bit version of Notepad++. I think I had the 64-bit version before. So, now it shows the 0xE29866 UTF-8 coding but not the other U+2588 decoding of it. <sigh>

Alright, that's quite enough of this long off-topic detour!
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by VictorBorun » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:43 pm

johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:46 pm
But how did you determine that is was U+2588?
copy-paste the █ character from the text you see to the search window and get the page about full block (U+2588) character

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:01 pm

VictorBorun wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:46 pm
But how did you determine that is was U+2588?
copy-paste the █ character from the text you see to the search window and get the page about full block (U+2588) character
Well, that was easier than it had a right to be! Thanks. But searching for that char directly that way via google.com had me scroll down a ways to find http://www.unicode-symbol.com/u/2588.html, which I consider definitive, although https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2588 was the first hit...which seems to also be pretty good.
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Ann » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:02 pm

VictorBorun wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:46 pm
But how did you determine that is was U+2588?
copy-paste the █ character from the text you see to the search window and get the page about full block (U+2588) character
I'm completely dense. I don't get it. I wrote U+2588 and got, well, U+2588.

Exactly how do I do it? Please?

Ann
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Ann » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:16 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:28 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:06 pm
Ann wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:36 am

Victor, I was impressed by your colored squares. I can see that you used black squares and placed color hex markings around them.

But where did you find the black squares? I would love to use them, too!

Ann
I'm not Victor, but I thought they might just be unicode characters. His "square" is really two chars side-by-side. I thought they might be one of the "geometric shapes" shown here - https://www.unicodepedia.com/groups/geometric-shapes/ - but none exactly match what Victor used. Though the "black vertical rectagle" comes close: ▮, but it's not big enough! Can it be colorized with the "font color" tool in the post editor? Let's see: ▮▮▮. Yup! But there is also space between successive chars, which Victor's double black box chars don't have. I still suspect it's a unicode char however.
Sure. You can just look at it in the quoted text. It's Unicode U+2588, Full Block. In Windows you type it using ALT-219 (█) or a pair of those (██). As an ordinary character, you can apply whatever styling BBCODE offers: .
Thanks, Chris, ALT-219 works: █

And I can make it colorful: ██ ██

Thanks, it works!

Ann
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by neufer » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:39 pm

Ann wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:43 pm
neufer wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Ann wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:11 am

Okay, I promised you: That's star cluster NGC 7023 (top) in the Iris Nebula!
The cluster is responsible for the "top hat cavity" at top.

I can see that the arrows I drew make it look as if some force is pushing the dust inwards, toward the middle. Of course, the opposite is true. It is the wind and ultraviolet light from the hot bright star that pushes the dust outwards, creating both the cavity around the star and and the edges of gas and dust that get ionized. But the triangular cavity at top was made by the cluster.
Pretty sure...
To my eyes your "star cluster" looks indistinguishable from the background Milky Way:
The "top hat cavity" :roll: is just one of numerous holes in the dust curtain, IMO.
Art Neuendorffer

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Ann
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Ann » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:43 pm

neufer wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:39 pm
Ann wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:43 pm
neufer wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Pretty sure...
To my eyes your "star cluster" looks indistinguishable from the background Milky Way:
The "top hat cavity" :roll: is just one of numerous holes in the dust curtain, IMO.
I guess you're right:

viewtopic.php?p=316390#p316390

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:32 pm

Ann wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:16 pm
Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:28 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:06 pm


I'm not Victor, but I thought they might just be unicode characters. His "square" is really two chars side-by-side. I thought they might be one of the "geometric shapes" shown here - https://www.unicodepedia.com/groups/geometric-shapes/ - but none exactly match what Victor used. Though the "black vertical rectagle" comes close: ▮, but it's not big enough! Can it be colorized with the "font color" tool in the post editor? Let's see: ▮▮▮. Yup! But there is also space between successive chars, which Victor's double black box chars don't have. I still suspect it's a unicode char however.
Sure. You can just look at it in the quoted text. It's Unicode U+2588, Full Block. In Windows you type it using ALT-219 (█) or a pair of those (██). As an ordinary character, you can apply whatever styling BBCODE offers: .
Thanks, Chris, ALT-219 works: █

And I can make it colorful: ██ ██

Thanks, it works!

Ann
I can't get the <Alt>219 sequence to do anything at all in my browser or anywhere else on Windows. I guess I'm an idiot.

But, I can get <Win><period> to pop up a unicode char selector, which has a bunch of different colored blocks and circles, which might be even easier...for me anyway:

⬛ 🟥🟧🟨🟩🟦🟪🟫⬜🔴🟠🟡🟢🔵🟣🟤⚫⚪
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by bystander » Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:38 pm

Windows has an accessory called Character Map (in the Start Menu under Window Accessories). You can find all of the Unicode characters there.
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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Ann » Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:36 am

bystander wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:38 pm
Windows has an accessory called Character Map (in the Start Menu under Window Accessories). You can find all of the Unicode characters there.
The word Unicode is Greek to me. Sorry.

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:45 am

Ann wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:36 am
bystander wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:38 pm
Windows has an accessory called Character Map (in the Start Menu under Window Accessories). You can find all of the Unicode characters there.
The word Unicode is Greek to me. Sorry.

Ann
That's okay. Unicode includes the Greek alphabet.
Chris

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Re: APOD: NGC 7023: The Iris Nebula (2021 Sep 03)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:29 pm

bystander wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:38 pm
Windows has an accessory called Character Map (in the Start Menu under Window Accessories). You can find all of the Unicode characters there.
Yup, the "full block" char is available there as well, in the Arial font and a few others. Not entirely sure why it's not in all fonts, I guess each font only includes the chars that someone thought were important when it was created. Any given font is just a small subset of chars in the complete unicode character set.
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