What caused the big bang

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What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:46 pm

How many ways am I wrong?
Perhaps when the entire universe is nothing except a small dot all gravity ceases to exist as there would be no pace for matter to gravitate to or away from at that point, it would just be. And the second this state existed the repulsive force of all atoms.......... Boom
I've come to the conclusion that when i said i wanted to be somebody when i grew up i probably should have been more specific

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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Ann » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:12 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:46 pm
How many ways am I wrong?
Perhaps when the entire universe is nothing except a small dot all gravity ceases to exist as there would be no pace for matter to gravitate to or away from at that point, it would just be. And the second this state existed the repulsive force of all atoms.......... Boom
When I was in my teens, I remember a smart-alecky boy in my class saying something like this:


What if the entire Universe is... a bicycle. Maybe it's just one wheel of a bicycle. The front wheel. And maybe we are in the tire... no, we are in the inner tube... and we are just along for the ride. And we don't know where we are going.


I've always liked the idea that the Universe might be a bicycle. I guess there are bicycle paths all the way down. :D

Ann

P.S. I guess it might have been my old classmate Sven who said it, the co-creator of Bluetooth.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Ann wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:12 pm


When I was in my teens, I remember a smart-alecky boy in my class saying something like this:

What if the entire Universe is... a bicycle. Maybe it's just one wheel of a bicycle. The front wheel. And maybe we are in the tire... no, we are in the inner tube... and we are just along for the ride. And we don't know where we are going.

I've always liked the idea that the Universe might be a bicycle. I guess there are bicycle paths all the way down. :D P.S. I guess it might have been my old classmate Sven who said it, the co-creator of Bluetooth.
:arrow: Schven AeroCycle
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:00 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:46 pm
How many ways am I wrong?
Perhaps when the entire universe is nothing except a small dot all gravity ceases to exist as there would be no pace for matter to gravitate to or away from at that point, it would just be. And the second this state existed the repulsive force of all atoms.......... Boom
It is a fallacy to assume it required a cause. Even within our universe it appears that we can have effects without causes. Before the laws that dictate our universe appeared, we can make no assumptions about anything.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:22 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:00 pm
THX1138 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:46 pm

Perhaps when the entire universe is nothing except a small dot all gravity ceases to exist as there would be no pace for matter to gravitate to or away from at that point, it would just be. And the second this state existed the repulsive force of all atoms.......... Boom
It is a fallacy to assume it required a cause. Even within our universe it appears that we can have effects without causes. Before the laws that dictate our universe appeared, we can make no assumptions about anything.
  • Costello: I throw the ball to who. Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don't Know. I Don't Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don't know! He's on third and I don't give a damn!

    Abbott: Oh, that's our shortstop.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Fred the Cat » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:01 am

Is there an upper limit for black holes? What if two of these merged?

Now that would be a big bang! :thumb_up:
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:35 am

Fred the Cat wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:01 am

Is there an upper limit for black holes? What if two of these merged?

Now that would be a big bang! :thumb_up:
You are talking gravitational waves of
  • 1) wavelengths ~2,500 AU
    2) and periods of two weeks (~10-6 Hz)

In space, no one can hear two 1010 solar mass black holes scream.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Interferometer_Space_Antenna wrote:

<<LISA will be able to detect the gravitational waves from the merger of a pair of (super)massive black holes with a chirp mass between 103 and 107 solar masses all the way back to their earliest formation at redshift around z ≈ 15. The most conservative population models expect at least a few such events to happen each year. For mergers closer by (z < 3), it will be able to determine the spins of the components, which carry information about the past evolution of the components (e.g. whether they have grown primarily through accretion or mergers). For mergers around the peak of star formation (z ≈ 2) LISA will be able to locate mergers within 100 square degrees on the night sky at least 24 hours before the actual merger, allowing electromagnetic telescopes to search for counterparts, with the potential of witnessing the formation of a quasar after a merger.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pulsar_Timing_Array#Detection_of_gravitational_waves wrote:
<<The European Pulsar Timing Array (EPTA) is a European collaboration to combine five 100-m class radio-telescopes to observe an array of pulsars with the specific goal of detecting gravitational waves. It is one of three pulsar timing array projects in operation, the others being the Parkes Pulsar Timing Array and the North American Nanohertz Observatory for Gravitational Waves.

Gravitational waves (GW) are small disturbances in space-time, caused by the motion of masses, if the third time derivative of the mass quadrupole moment is non-zero. These waves are very weak, such that only the strongest waves, caused by the rapid motion of dense stars or black-holes, have a chance of being detected. A pulsar timing array (PTA) uses an array of MSPs as the endpoints of a Galaxy-scale GW detector. It is sensitive to GWs with a frequency in the nanohertz regime, which corresponds to the regime where the stochastic GW background, caused by the coalescence of super-massive black holes in the early Universe, is predicted to exist.[citation needed] This makes PTAs complementary to other GW detectors such as LIGO, VIRGO and LISA.

The EPTA is one component of a worldwide collaboration for detecting and measuring gravitational waves, the International Pulsar Timing Array, which also includes the North American Nanohertz Observatory for Gravitational Waves (NANOGrav) and the Parkes Pulsar Timing Array (PPTA).>>
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Ann » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:14 am

neufer wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 pm
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Ann wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:12 pm


When I was in my teens, I remember a smart-alecky boy in my class saying something like this:

What if the entire Universe is... a bicycle. Maybe it's just one wheel of a bicycle. The front wheel. And maybe we are in the tire... no, we are in the inner tube... and we are just along for the ride. And we don't know where we are going.

I've always liked the idea that the Universe might be a bicycle. I guess there are bicycle paths all the way down. :D P.S. I guess it might have been my old classmate Sven who said it, the co-creator of Bluetooth.
Schven AeroCycle

Wow, Art, that was some "just along for the ride and not knowing where you are going" bicycle ride!!! :shock: :D

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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:09 am

Somewhat similar to the movie War Games only in this instance its more like
Strange Statement, The Winning Move Was Not To Make It
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:28 am

OK, I retreat now to my fall back position where neutrinos drive me crazy, OK well crazier.
Shall I start a new thread or would someone here care to delve into the matter has to how in the hell anything can go through a light year of solid lead and not hit anything, I mean what's with these neutrino dudes, how about a neutron star do they zip through those without hitting anything too?
Or perhaps the bigger question might be what's the use of being a neutrino if nothing can stop you, I should think that any self respecting neutrino would slow down or stop once in awhile, no?
I've come to the conclusion that when i said i wanted to be somebody when i grew up i probably should have been more specific

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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:52 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:28 am
OK, I retreat now to my fall back position where neutrinos drive me crazy, OK well crazier.
Shall I start a new thread or would someone here care to delve into the matter has to how in the hell anything can go through a light year of solid lead and not hit anything, I mean what's with these neutrino dudes, how about a neutron star do they zip through those without hitting anything too?
Or perhaps the bigger question might be what's the use of being a neutrino if nothing can stop you, I should think that any self respecting neutrino would slow down or stop once in awhile, no?
What you have to keep in mind is that an atom of lead is overwhelmingly empty space. And a light year of lead is the same. Like a few dust motes floating in a stadium. The chance of another dust mote moving through actually hitting something is very, very small. With any particles, collisions are rare. What we perceive as collisions is actually an interaction of the fields around the particles, like the electromagnetic field or the weak force. Imagine playing pool on a huge table with tiny balls. You'd hardly ever hit any thing. But if each ball had a powerful magnet in it, there'd be lots of action. That's how the particle world works, with field interactions. But neutrinos are like pool balls that don't have magnets in them. They don't interact, so they are only detected or interfered with if they actually hit another particle. It happens, but it's rare.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:44 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:52 pm
THX1138 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:28 am

Shall I start a new thread or would someone here care to delve into the matter has to how in the hell anything can go through a light year of solid lead and not hit anything, I mean what's with these neutrino dudes, how about a neutron star do they zip through those without hitting anything too?
What you have to keep in mind is that an atom of lead is overwhelmingly empty space. And a light year of lead is the same. Like a few dust motes floating in a stadium. The chance of another dust mote moving through actually hitting something is very, very small. With any particles, collisions are rare. What we perceive as collisions is actually an interaction of the fields around the particles, like the electromagnetic field or the weak force. Imagine playing pool on a huge table with tiny balls. You'd hardly ever hit any thing. But if each ball had a powerful magnet in it, there'd be lots of action. That's how the particle world works, with field interactions. But neutrinos are like pool balls that don't have magnets in them. They don't interact, so they are only detected or interfered with if they actually hit another particle. It happens, but it's rare.
Diameter of lead atom: D ~ 2 X 10-8 cm;
diameter of lead nucleus: d ~ 11 X 10-13 cm.

It would take approximately 6.6 cm [= D3/d2] of lead
to physical block half the neutrinos in a beam of neutrinos.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/neutrino.htm wrote:
For typical neutrinos produced in the sun (with energies of a few MeV),
it would take approximately one light year of lead to block half of them.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:57 pm

Man the lot of you are some smart hombres, OK one last question as I am absolutely certain that all of you have much more important things to do than answering the sixth grade questions that I seem to harbor. What happens to one of those neutrino's that happen to be blocked, do they just cease to exist or are they stuck there next to whatever happened to stop them. All the rest I assume just keep traveling until the end of time itself or they hit something that stops them. Note: I'm not so sure that equating time into this matter is even relevant.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Fred the Cat » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:48 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:57 pm
Man the lot of you are some smart hombres, OK one last question as I am absolutely certain that all of you have much more important things to do than answering the sixth grade questions that I seem to harbor. What happens to one of those neutrino's that happen to be blocked, do they just cease to exist or are they stuck there next to whatever happened to stop them. All the rest I assume just keep traveling until the end of time itself or they hit something that stops them. Note: I'm not so sure that equating time into this matter is even relevant.
I’m not one of those but I find the field of small things fascinating. Seems there should be three choices. Zip right through, a glancing blow, and a full on collision.

Personally, I might imagine a full on collision creating dark matter but that would be a wild-assed guess. :yes:
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by bystander » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:46 pm

[font=sarcasm]
Obviously time caused the big bang. Before t=0 space-time and all the energy (matter) it contained didn't exist, and then 💥,
at the first stroke of time, space-time and all it contains was there, expanding and cooling into the universe as we know it.
[/font]
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:32 pm

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bystander wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:46 pm


Obviously time caused the big bang. Before t=0 space-time and all the energy (matter) it contained didn't exist, and then 💥, at the first stroke of time, space-time and all it contains was there, expanding and cooling into the universe as we know it.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:33 am

Seems that, that may very well be true but it doesn't take away from the fact that it sounds just plain crazy and indeed sounds just as crazy as believing there's an invisible man living in the sky and he watches everything you do every minute of the day and he has a list of ten things that he doesn't want you to do and if you do any of those things he will send you to a place where you will burn and scream forever till the end of time, But he loves you.
I've come to the conclusion that when i said i wanted to be somebody when i grew up i probably should have been more specific

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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:27 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:33 am

Seems that, that may very well be true but it doesn't take away from the fact that it sounds just plain crazy and indeed sounds just as crazy as believing there's an invisible man living in the sky and he watches everything you do every minute of the day and he has a list of ten things that he doesn't want you to do and if you do any of those things he will send you to a place where you will burn and scream forever till the end of time, But he loves you.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:25 am

I like that and there was a time when reading those comic books was the thing to do but now being much older I recognize the folly of at all much like any adult might moreover I now take issue with places like Disneyland, think about it what with Tomorrowland, adventure land, phantasy land and what have you, How's any of that non-sense going to get any child ready for the real world? I say there should be someplace more realistic to take children to, like say ( Suckworld ) You be in line with your son and he would be like / this sucks dad we've been in this line for hours now and its hardly moved at all / your reply might be, This is the DMV ride son and everyone goes on it, next we're going on the Friday bank ride. Yep Suckworld and the name kind of says it all no?
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:08 am

OK enough with both the questions and my sad excuse for comedy so getting back to this big bang thing.
Obviously the universe couldn't care less what I like or dislike but that doesn't change the fact that I don't like what Chris says in the matter of what caused the big bang (its wrong to assume that anything was needed to cause it) I want there to be a reason and I want to know how it happened moreover More likely than not wanting to know the how's and why's is the main reason why I've always loved learning stuff about space so much.
Yes I know I'm supposed to post a question about the universe here and yes I know this is not a place for sharing philosophical idea. but I'm still stuck on wanting to know how it all began, how can it exist, why does it exist. Where did it all come from. The age old questions you know, I want to know the answers more than anything I want to know why
I've come to the conclusion that when i said i wanted to be somebody when i grew up i probably should have been more specific

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Wherefore art thou Universe?

Post by neufer » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:02 pm

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THX1138 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:08 am

I want there to be a reason and I want to know how it happened moreover More likely than not wanting to know the how's and why's is the main reason why I've always loved learning stuff about space so much. Yes I know I'm supposed to post a question about the universe here and yes I know this is not a place for sharing philosophical idea. but I'm still stuck on wanting to know how it all began, how can it exist, why does it exist. Where did it all come from. The age old questions you know, I want to know the answers more than anything I want to know why
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by bystander » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:31 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:08 am
OK enough with both the questions and my sad excuse for comedy so getting back to this big bang thing.

Obviously the universe couldn't care less what I like or dislike but that doesn't change the fact that I don't like what Chris says in the matter of what caused the big bang (its wrong to assume that anything was needed to cause it) I want there to be a reason and I want to know how it happened moreover More likely than not wanting to know the how's and why's is the main reason why I've always loved learning stuff about space so much.

Yes I know I'm supposed to post a question about the universe here and yes I know this is not a place for sharing philosophical idea. but I'm still stuck on wanting to know how it all began, how can it exist, why does it exist. Where did it all come from. The age old questions you know, I want to know the answers more than anything I want to know why

As space-time and everything in it began at t=0, the instance of the "big bang", it is impossible to know what existed before. Essentially, there is no before.
Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by THX1138 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:30 pm

It's just not fair, we all know that there had to be something...................Right?
Impossible to know? Well its said that nothing is impossible but I do nothing every day. :ssmile:
I've come to the conclusion that when i said i wanted to be somebody when i grew up i probably should have been more specific

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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by neufer » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:03 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
THX1138 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:30 pm


It's just not fair, we all know that there had to be something

...................Right?

Impossible to know? Well its said that nothing is impossible but I do nothing every day. :ssmile:
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Re: What caused the big bang

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:34 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:30 pm
It's just not fair, we all know that there had to be something...................Right?
Well, no. There didn't.
Impossible to know? Well its said that nothing is impossible but I do nothing every day. :ssmile:
So it is said. But that's wrong. Beyond reasonable doubt, some things are impossible.
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