APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
Post Reply
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 5345
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am
Contact:

APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by APOD Robot » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:05 am

Image The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb

Explanation: To some, it looks like a wheel of a cart. In fact, because of its outward appearance, the presence of a central galaxy, and its connection with what looks like the spokes of a wheel, the galaxy on the right is known as the Cartwheel Galaxy. To others, however, it looks like a complicated interaction between galaxies awaiting explanation. Along with the two galaxies on the left, the Cartwheel is part of a group of galaxies about 500 million light years away in the constellation Sculptor. The large galaxy's rim spans over 100,000 light years and is composed of star forming regions filled with extremely bright and massive stars. The Cartwheel's ring-like shape is the result of gravitational disruption caused by a smaller galaxy passing through a large one, compressing the interstellar gas and dust and causing a star formation wave to move out like a ripple across the surface of a pond. The featured recent image of the Cartwheel Galaxy by the Webb Space Telescope reveals new details not only about where stars are forming, but also about activity near the galaxy's central black hole.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

User avatar
VictorBorun
Captain
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by VictorBorun » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:40 am

Last edited by VictorBorun on Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
VictorBorun
Captain
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by VictorBorun » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:44 am

hovering visual over near IR
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
hovering near IR over mid-IR
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
Stars do drift between Hubble and Webb

User avatar
Ann
4725 Å
Posts: 13373
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by Ann » Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:29 am

VictorBorun wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:44 am hovering visual over near IR
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
hovering near IR over mid-IR
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
Stars do drift between Hubble and Webb
Thank you for your hover images, Victor! :D

Ann
Color Commentator

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 8200
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:03 pm

Cartwheel_Webb_960.jpg
The cart wheel sorta reminds me of a Farris wheel very unique galaxy!
STScI-01G8KCAK75G2JPGHNC40PVTA1R.png
I really like this picture!
enhanced-30243-1462295029-5.jpg
Kitty is watching!
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
VictorBorun
Captain
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by VictorBorun » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:16 pm

orin stepanek wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:03 pm reminds me of a Farris wheel
do you mean Ferris Wheel
Image

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 8200
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:23 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:16 pm
orin stepanek wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:03 pm reminds me of a Farris wheel
do you mean Ferris Wheel
Image
I used Spell check! :oops: had Ferris wheel at first and it red lined me!
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21571
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by bystander » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:39 pm

Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
— Garrison Keillor

User avatar
VictorBorun
Captain
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by VictorBorun » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:21 pm

orin stepanek wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:23 pm I used Spell check! :oops: had Ferris wheel at first and it red lined me!
Ferris at night
cartwheel 3.jpg

User avatar
AVAO
Commander
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 12:24 pm
AKA: multiwavelength traveller
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by AVAO » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:51 pm

APOD Robot wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:05 am The featured recent image of the Cartwheel Galaxy by the Webb Space Telescope reveals new details not only about where stars are forming, but also about activity near the galaxy's central black hole.
Why would the Cartwheel Galaxy have a black hole in the middle when CHANDRA absolutely can't see it in the x-ray?

Image
Credit: NASA/CXC/A.Wolter & G.Trinchieri et al.

Image
(Credit: NASA/STScI/CXC/A.Wolter & G.Trinchieri et al.

User avatar
Ann
4725 Å
Posts: 13373
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by Ann » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:23 pm

AVAO wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:51 pm
APOD Robot wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:05 am The featured recent image of the Cartwheel Galaxy by the Webb Space Telescope reveals new details not only about where stars are forming, but also about activity near the galaxy's central black hole.
Why would the Cartwheel Galaxy have a black hole in the middle when CHANDRA absolutely can't see it in the x-ray?

Image
Credit: NASA/CXC/A.Wolter & G.Trinchieri et al.

Image
(Credit: NASA/STScI/CXC/A.Wolter & G.Trinchieri et al.


We see no signs of a bright accretion disk in the MIRI image. If it was there, it would look like a bright star with six characteristic JWST diffraction spikes in the center of the Cartwheel galaxy. There may be a black hole there, of course - in fact, there probably is - but it doesn't appear to be active.

Ann
Last edited by Ann on Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Color Commentator

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2781
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:57 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:44 am ...

Stars do drift between Hubble and Webb
Drift? I'm not seeing any stars changing position between the HST images and the Webb images. Only a lot more stars and other background galaxies in the Webb pics than in the Hubble pic. ......Ok, maybe that one bright star (in the MW) on the far right shifts a little. Is that what you are referring to?
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2781
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:58 pm

Wait, is this saying the the smaller bright central disk is really a separate galaxy that is still "plowing through" the center of the larger "ringed" galaxy?
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
VictorBorun
Captain
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by VictorBorun » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:27 am

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:57 pm
VictorBorun wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:44 am ...

Stars do drift between Hubble and Webb
Drift? I'm not seeing any stars changing position between the HST images and the Webb images. Only a lot more stars and other background galaxies in the Webb pics than in the Hubble pic. ......Ok, maybe that one bright star (in the MW) on the far right shifts a little. Is that what you are referring to?
I mean these 5 dots:
cartwheel NIR only 5.jpg
cartwheel Hubble 5.jpg

User avatar
VictorBorun
Captain
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by VictorBorun » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:28 am

Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
The largest drift, #2 is 1.8 arc seconds (if 100,000 ly line is drawn according to 500 million ly distance assumption and is 41.3 arc seconds).
The drift is too large for a parallax by Earth's orbital movement, but can it be a parallax by Sun's relative movement during the years between those snapshots (on October 16, 1994 by Hubble and 28 years later by Webb)?
Last edited by VictorBorun on Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Ann
4725 Å
Posts: 13373
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 5:33 am

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by Ann » Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:40 am

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:58 pm Wait, is this saying the the smaller bright central disk is really a separate galaxy that is still "plowing through" the center of the larger "ringed" galaxy?
No, that is not the case. The Cartwheel Galaxy wouldn't have acquired its full cartwheel shape, spokes and all, if the intruding galaxy had still been in the process of plowing into the very center of the spiral galaxy that would become the Cartwheel.

The intruder has been identified, and it has left the Cartwheel behind:

ESA wrote:
The galaxy's unusual configuration was created by a nearly head-on collision with a smaller galaxy about 200 million years ago.
Ann
Color Commentator

User avatar
AVAO
Commander
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 12:24 pm
AKA: multiwavelength traveller
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by AVAO » Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:54 am

Ann wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:40 am
ESA wrote:
The galaxy's unusual configuration was created by a nearly head-on collision with a smaller galaxy about 200 million years ago.
Ann
"These two rings expand outwards from the center of the collision, like ripples in a pond after a stone is tossed into it."
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... eel-galaxy

In WEBB's MIRI images, it is clear that the spokes go all the way to the center. In addition, the inner and outer rings spread outwards together. This means that if a collision had taken place, it would have to have taken place precisely in the center or at least inside the inner ring. But since the size of the potentially invading galaxy is probably larger than the inner ring, the hypothesis is nothing more than one of many possible hypotheses for me, and not a fact. However, the possibility that some form of interaction took place between the galaxies is certainly very realistic, but not necessarily the cause of the unusual cartwheel shape.

Image
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/523 ... 072f_o.jpg
jac berne (flickr)

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2781
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:18 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:28 am
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
The largest drift, #2 is 1.8 arc seconds (if 100,000 ly line is drawn according to 500 million ly distance assumption and is 41.3 arc seconds).
The drift is too large for a parallax by Earth's orbital movement, but can it be a parallax by Sun's relative movement during the years between those snapshots (on October 16, 1994 by Hubble and 28 years later by Webb)?
Thanks! And also for your previous post. You're certainly much more observant than I am, though at least I can see those stars shifting now that you've pointed them out for me. It seems I'd make a terrible observational astronomer.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2781
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: The Cartwheel Galaxy from Webb (2022 Aug 24)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:26 pm

AVAO wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:54 am
Ann wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:40 am
ESA wrote:
The galaxy's unusual configuration was created by a nearly head-on collision with a smaller galaxy about 200 million years ago.
Ann
"These two rings expand outwards from the center of the collision, like ripples in a pond after a stone is tossed into it."
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... eel-galaxy

In WEBB's MIRI images, it is clear that the spokes go all the way to the center. In addition, the inner and outer rings spread outwards together. This means that if a collision had taken place, it would have to have taken place precisely in the center or at least inside the inner ring. But since the size of the potentially invading galaxy is probably larger than the inner ring, the hypothesis is nothing more than one of many possible hypotheses for me, and not a fact. However, the possibility that some form of interaction took place between the galaxies is certainly very realistic, but not necessarily the cause of the unusual cartwheel shape.

...
I had indeed read the statement about a head-on collision 200 My ago, but what threw me was this statement in the APOD description:
"because of its outward appearance, the presence of a central galaxy, and its connection with what looks like the spokes of a wheel, the galaxy on the right is known as the Cartwheel Galaxy."
That seemed to be implying that the central disc structure was a separate galaxy. Poor wording I now suppose.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

Post Reply