APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

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APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by APOD Robot » Thu May 11, 2023 4:11 am

Image Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk

Explanation: Fomalhaut is a bright star, a 25 light-year voyage from planet Earth in the direction of the constellation Piscis Austrinus. Astronomers first noticed Fomalhaut's excess infrared emission in the 1980s. Space and ground-based telescopes have since identified the infrared emission's source as a disk of dusty debris surrounding the hot, young star related to the ongoing formation of a planetary system. But this sharp infrared image from the James Webb Space Telescope's MIRI camera reveals details of Fomalhaut's debris disk never before seen, including a large dust cloud in the outer ring that is possible evidence for colliding bodies, and an inner dust disk and gap likely shaped and maintained by embedded but unseen planets. An image scale bar in au or astronomical units, the average Earth-Sun distance, appears at the lower left. Fomalhaut's outer circumstellar dust ring lies at about twice the distance of our own Solar System's Kuiper Belt of small icy bodies and debris beyond the orbit of Neptune.

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by jks » Thu May 11, 2023 4:20 am

JWST is a pretty awesome instrument.

Note: The date at the top of today's APOD is currently erroneous and the "Discuss" link does not link properly to this location.

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by bystander » Thu May 11, 2023 5:10 am

Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by Rauf » Thu May 11, 2023 6:36 am

I clicked on Discuss on today's APOD, May 11, and got redirected to the Discuss page of May 6. I think there has been a mistake while adding this page's link..

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by Locutus76 » Thu May 11, 2023 9:22 am

Rauf wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 6:36 am I clicked on Discuss on today's APOD, May 11, and got redirected to the Discuss page of May 6. I think there has been a mistake while adding this page's link..
Yeah, got the same. Had to browse the forum to find this page. Today’s photo is also labeled May 6.

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by RJN » Thu May 11, 2023 12:53 pm

jks wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:20 am Note: The date at the top of today's APOD is currently erroneous and the "Discuss" link does not link properly to this location.
Fixed. Sorry! - RJN

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by John The Old Tex Guy » Thu May 11, 2023 1:33 pm

I have to ask the significance of the "N" up arrow and the "E" left-pointing arrow in the upper right of the image. It brings a smile.

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu May 11, 2023 2:05 pm

John The Old Tex Guy wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 1:33 pm I have to ask the significance of the "N" up arrow and the "E" left-pointing arrow in the upper right of the image. It brings a smile.
It means that north is up and east is left, which is astronomical image convention (it's how the sky appears to you if lying on your back with your head to the north). In astronomical coordinates, it can also be understood to mean that declination is increasing towards the top (north), and right ascension is increasing to the left (east).
Chris

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Thu May 11, 2023 2:11 pm

Lying on the grass, looking up at the sky, head to the north

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu May 11, 2023 3:48 pm

Ok, my obvious question is: if the JWST was in orbit around Fomalhaut (assuming it could survive and function there or somewhere nearby!) would it be able to see our Solar System's Kuiper belt? How about the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter? Are those orbiting debris rings/fields emitting enough IR to be detectable as distinct structures by the JWST?
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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu May 11, 2023 3:52 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:48 pm Ok, my obvious question is: if the JWST was in orbit around Fomalhaut (assuming it could survive and function there or somewhere nearby!) would it be able to see our Solar System's Kuiper belt? How about the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter? Are those orbiting debris rings/fields emitting enough IR to be detectable as distinct structures by the JWST?
We can't even detect our own asteroid belt from here, except by the reflection of sunlight off of individual asteroids. Nor, Kuiper Belt objects, except as individual objects. Both are simply too diffuse and have too little mass.
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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by That Guy » Thu May 11, 2023 4:17 pm

Is it just me or is the explanation of the AU scale incorrect? Using that scale the outer dust ring appears to be at most 3 AU from the center of the system. Isn't that inconsistent with the explanation that the outer dust ring is twice the distance as our local system's Kuiper Belt?

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by VictorBorun » Thu May 11, 2023 4:18 pm

please does anyone knows how to relate Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk's (inclined 24° from edge-on) to the motion:

Radial velocity (Rv) +6.5 km/s
Proper motion (μ) RA: +328.95 mas/yr
Dec.: −164.67 mas/yr

Does the disk go through interstellar media edge-on? Face on?

Can the dust be being replenished rather by the headwind than by the collision rate approximately 2000 kilometre-sized comets per day

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by VictorBorun » Thu May 11, 2023 4:22 pm

That Guy wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:17 pm Is it just me or is the explanation of the AU scale incorrect? Using that scale the outer dust ring appears to be at most 3 AU from the center of the system. Isn't that inconsistent with the explanation that the outer dust ring is twice the distance as our local system's Kuiper Belt?
maybe correcting the inclination will help:
Image
Last edited by VictorBorun on Thu May 11, 2023 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu May 11, 2023 4:26 pm

That Guy wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:17 pm Is it just me or is the explanation of the AU scale incorrect? Using that scale the outer dust ring appears to be at most 3 AU from the center of the system. Isn't that inconsistent with the explanation that the outer dust ring is twice the distance as our local system's Kuiper Belt?
I look at the scale and estimate the outer dust ring to be about 150 AU, which is probably more like three times the distance from the Sun to the Kuiper belt. I don't see how you're getting 3 AU.
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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by AVAO » Thu May 11, 2023 5:31 pm

APOD Robot wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:11 am Image Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk
The current location of the star is marked with a red cross.
Should the star not be in the point-symmetrical center (yellow dot) of the two circles?
Does anyone know an explanation for this asymmetry?

Image
jac berne (flickr)

Interesting: https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... anet-jwst/

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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu May 11, 2023 8:31 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:52 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:48 pm Ok, my obvious question is: if the JWST was in orbit around Fomalhaut (assuming it could survive and function there or somewhere nearby!) would it be able to see our Solar System's Kuiper belt? How about the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter? Are those orbiting debris rings/fields emitting enough IR to be detectable as distinct structures by the JWST?
We can't even detect our own asteroid belt from here, except by the reflection of sunlight off of individual asteroids. Nor, Kuiper Belt objects, except as individual objects. Both are simply too diffuse and have too little mass.
Yes, very good points.
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Re: APOD: Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk (2023 May 11)

Post by VictorBorun » Sat May 13, 2023 1:27 am

AVAO wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:31 pm
APOD Robot wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:11 am Image Fomalhaut's Dusty Debris Disk
The current location of the star is marked with a red cross.
Should the star not be in the point-symmetrical center (yellow dot) of the two circles?
Does anyone know an explanation for this asymmetry?

Image
jac berne (flickr)

Interesting: https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... anet-jwst/
nice overlay of JWST 15 µm, 23µm, 25 µm!

When they say that The geometric center of the disk is offset by about 15 AU from Fomalhaut. they may imply a planet is clearing the space around its eccentric orbit from the debries the outer ring is trying to send downward to the star.
But then where that eccentricity comes from — is it a resonance between the planets disturbing their orbits or is it the eccentricity of the proto-disk?
Does the gravitational precipitation of a star do this, form a star off the centre of the disk?
Were that planet the largest planet it would maintain the eccentricity of its orbit through all resonances with other planets, but why should the largest planet be so distant? Must be the eccentricity of the proto-disk