APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

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APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon May 15, 2023 4:08 am

Image M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field

Explanation: From afar, the whole thing looks like an eagle. A closer look at the Eagle Nebula, however, shows the bright region is actually a window into the center of a larger dark shell of dust. Through this window, a brightly-lit workshop appears where a whole open cluster of stars is being formed. In this cavity, tall pillars and round globules of dark dust and cold molecular gas remain where stars are still forming. Already visible are several young bright blue stars whose light and winds are burning away and pushing back the remaining filaments and walls of gas and dust. The Eagle emission nebula, tagged M16, lies about 6500 light years away, spans about 20 light-years, and is visible with [url=https://www.explainthatstuff.com/binoculars.html" >binoculars</a> toward the <a href="https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/constellations/en/]constellation[/url] of the Serpent (Serpens). This picture involved long and deep exposures and combined three specific emitted colors emitted by sulfur (colored as yellow), hydrogen (red), and oxygen (blue).

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Ann » Mon May 15, 2023 4:30 am

As always, my eye is drawn to The Arch of The Eagle:

APOD 15 May 2023 detail.png
The Arch of the Eagle.

How do we explain the Arch of the Eagle?

I don't know.

Ann
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon May 15, 2023 5:11 am

Ann wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:30 am As always, my eye is drawn to The Arch of The Eagle:

APOD 15 May 2023 detail.png
The Arch of the Eagle.

How do we explain the Arch of the Eagle?

I don't know.

Ann
I don't think it's an arch. I think it's a glowing blob that has another blob of occluding dust in front of it, giving the illusion of an arched structure.
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Ann » Mon May 15, 2023 5:37 am

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:11 am
Ann wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:30 am As always, my eye is drawn to The Arch of The Eagle:

APOD 15 May 2023 detail.png
The Arch of the Eagle.

How do we explain the Arch of the Eagle?

I don't know.

Ann
I don't think it's an arch. I think it's a glowing blob that has another blob of occluding dust in front of it, giving the illusion of an arched structure.

The Eagle Arch Elmer L Geissler.png
The Eagle Arch. Credit: Elmer L. Geissler.
Chris Peterson: I don't think it is an arch.


The Eagle of the Eagle Arch: Maybe it is. Or not.


Ann
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by gmPhil » Mon May 15, 2023 8:10 am

APOD Robot wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:08 am Image M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field
From afar, the whole thing looks like ...
I am pretty sure there is no way (yet) for us to see this from any perspective other than "afar"! :)

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Christian G. » Mon May 15, 2023 12:44 pm

The somewhat pompously so-called "Pillars of Creation" near the center are dwarfed by this giant eagle!

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon May 15, 2023 1:36 pm

Chris Alex wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 12:44 pm The somewhat pompously so-called "Pillars of Creation" near the center are dwarfed by this giant eagle!
The "Pillars of Creation" are the eagle! Not the large structure seen in this image. They are one and the same.
_
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Rauf » Mon May 15, 2023 1:50 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:36 pm
Chris Alex wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 12:44 pm The somewhat pompously so-called "Pillars of Creation" near the center are dwarfed by this giant eagle!
The "Pillars of Creation" are the eagle! Not the large structure seen in this image. They are one and the same.
_
I don't think that's correct.. according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Nebula and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation, the pillars of creation are within the Eagle Nebula, and I don't think the astronomers that named this nebula Eagle had equipment strong enough to distinguish the pillars of creation.. the name became popular when HST captured that region..
If however I am wrong, please tell me how.

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Christian G. » Mon May 15, 2023 2:04 pm

I always thought the shape of an eagle spanning its wings was above the pillars with its head right over, as though the eagle was honing in on them for a kill!
Last edited by Christian G. on Mon May 15, 2023 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Rauf » Mon May 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:50 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:36 pm
Chris Alex wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 12:44 pm The somewhat pompously so-called "Pillars of Creation" near the center are dwarfed by this giant eagle!
The "Pillars of Creation" are the eagle! Not the large structure seen in this image. They are one and the same.
_
I don't think that's correct.. according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Nebula and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation, the pillars of creation are within the Eagle Nebula, and I don't think the astronomers that named this nebula Eagle had equipment strong enough to distinguish the pillars of creation.. the name became popular when HST captured that region..
If however I am wrong, please tell me how.
Quoted from space.com:
Originally taken in 1995(opens in new tab) by the Hubble Space Telescope, the Pillars of Creation is one of the most iconic astronomical images of all time. Despite their notoriety, the pillars represent only a small part of the Eagle Nebula, measuring 4 to 5 light-years across, according to NASA.

https://www.space.com/16396-eagle-nebul ... ation.html

And from BBC sky magazine:
The pillars are regions of dark dust and gas contained within the Eagle Nebula that stretch about 5 lightyears long and hide embedded newborn stars from view.

You might not realise it if you look solely at Hubble's Pillars of Creation image in isolation, but they really only make up a small portion of the Eagle Nebula region.

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astr ... le-nebula/

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon May 15, 2023 2:27 pm

Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:05 pm
Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:50 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:36 pm

The "Pillars of Creation" are the eagle! Not the large structure seen in this image. They are one and the same.
_
I don't think that's correct.. according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Nebula and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation, the pillars of creation are within the Eagle Nebula, and I don't think the astronomers that named this nebula Eagle had equipment strong enough to distinguish the pillars of creation.. the name became popular when HST captured that region..
If however I am wrong, please tell me how.
Quoted from space.com:
Originally taken in 1995(opens in new tab) by the Hubble Space Telescope, the Pillars of Creation is one of the most iconic astronomical images of all time. Despite their notoriety, the pillars represent only a small part of the Eagle Nebula, measuring 4 to 5 light-years across, according to NASA.

https://www.space.com/16396-eagle-nebul ... ation.html

And from BBC sky magazine:
The pillars are regions of dark dust and gas contained within the Eagle Nebula that stretch about 5 lightyears long and hide embedded newborn stars from view.

You might not realise it if you look solely at Hubble's Pillars of Creation image in isolation, but they really only make up a small portion of the Eagle Nebula region.

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astr ... le-nebula/
Not true. The Eagle Nebula was named because of the visual appearance (through an eyepiece) of the section also called "The Pillars of Creation" long ago, before any of that other larger structure was even known. Calling the larger structure the Eagle Nebula is quite recent. Only that central part is visible through a telescope (identified by Messier as #16 in his catalog) and it does indeed look like an eagle visually. The large, diffuse nebula is is within is called IC4703, and that is not a visual nebula (and most certainly not with the small telescopes Messier and other early visual astronomers had available).

So regardless of how the unofficial term "Eagle Nebula" is currently used, the actual Eagle that gives it its name is the same structure as the Pillars.
Chris

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Ann » Mon May 15, 2023 3:15 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:36 pm
Chris Alex wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 12:44 pm The somewhat pompously so-called "Pillars of Creation" near the center are dwarfed by this giant eagle!
The "Pillars of Creation" are the eagle! Not the large structure seen in this image. They are one and the same.
_
Chris is right. Below you can see that "eagle outline" in the pictures that people took with old telescopes (like, I guess, the Hale Telescope of the Palomar Observatory):

Eagle outline in Eagle Nebula.png

So as you can see, the most iconic and tallest of the "Pillars of Creation" is not a part of the Eagle of the Eagle Nebula, because the tallest pillar isn't dark enough to have stood out in the pictures taken with the old telescopes.


Ann
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Christian G. » Mon May 15, 2023 3:23 pm

Indeed this really does look like an eagle! From today on I can enjoy the "Pillars" in a brand new light, thank you Ann and Chris!

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Rauf » Mon May 15, 2023 3:52 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:27 pm
Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:05 pm
Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:50 pm

I don't think that's correct.. according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Nebula and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation, the pillars of creation are within the Eagle Nebula, and I don't think the astronomers that named this nebula Eagle had equipment strong enough to distinguish the pillars of creation.. the name became popular when HST captured that region..
If however I am wrong, please tell me how.
Quoted from space.com:
Originally taken in 1995(opens in new tab) by the Hubble Space Telescope, the Pillars of Creation is one of the most iconic astronomical images of all time. Despite their notoriety, the pillars represent only a small part of the Eagle Nebula, measuring 4 to 5 light-years across, according to NASA.

https://www.space.com/16396-eagle-nebul ... ation.html

And from BBC sky magazine:
The pillars are regions of dark dust and gas contained within the Eagle Nebula that stretch about 5 lightyears long and hide embedded newborn stars from view.

You might not realise it if you look solely at Hubble's Pillars of Creation image in isolation, but they really only make up a small portion of the Eagle Nebula region.

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astr ... le-nebula/
Not true. The Eagle Nebula was named because of the visual appearance (through an eyepiece) of the section also called "The Pillars of Creation" long ago, before any of that other larger structure was even known. Calling the larger structure the Eagle Nebula is quite recent. Only that central part is visible through a telescope (identified by Messier as #16 in his catalog) and it does indeed look like an eagle visually. The large, diffuse nebula is is within is called IC4703, and that is not a visual nebula (and most certainly not with the small telescopes Messier and other early visual astronomers had available).

So regardless of how the unofficial term "Eagle Nebula" is currently used, the actual Eagle that gives it its name is the same structure as the Pillars.

So, umm, what should we call the larger nebula that engulfs the pillars of creation?
Last edited by Rauf on Mon May 15, 2023 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon May 15, 2023 3:58 pm

Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:52 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:27 pm
Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Quoted from space.com:
Originally taken in 1995(opens in new tab) by the Hubble Space Telescope, the Pillars of Creation is one of the most iconic astronomical images of all time. Despite their notoriety, the pillars represent only a small part of the Eagle Nebula, measuring 4 to 5 light-years across, according to NASA.

https://www.space.com/16396-eagle-nebul ... ation.html

And from BBC sky magazine:
The pillars are regions of dark dust and gas contained within the Eagle Nebula that stretch about 5 lightyears long and hide embedded newborn stars from view.

You might not realise it if you look solely at Hubble's Pillars of Creation image in isolation, but they really only make up a small portion of the Eagle Nebula region.

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astr ... le-nebula/
Not true. The Eagle Nebula was named because of the visual appearance (through an eyepiece) of the section also called "The Pillars of Creation" long ago, before any of that other larger structure was even known. Calling the larger structure the Eagle Nebula is quite recent. Only that central part is visible through a telescope (identified by Messier as #16 in his catalog) and it does indeed look like an eagle visually. The large, diffuse nebula is is within is called IC4703, and that is not a visual nebula (and most certainly not with the small telescopes Messier and other early visual astronomers had available).

So regardless of how the unofficial term "Eagle Nebula" is currently used, the actual Eagle that gives it its name is the same structure as the Pillars.
So, umm, what should we call the larger nebula that engulfs the pillars of creation?
Officially, it is IC4703. Casually, the larger region is commonly called the Eagle these days. Most nebulas don't have names at all, just catalog numbers.
Chris

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Rauf » Mon May 15, 2023 4:01 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:58 pm
Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:52 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:27 pm
Not true. The Eagle Nebula was named because of the visual appearance (through an eyepiece) of the section also called "The Pillars of Creation" long ago, before any of that other larger structure was even known. Calling the larger structure the Eagle Nebula is quite recent. Only that central part is visible through a telescope (identified by Messier as #16 in his catalog) and it does indeed look like an eagle visually. The large, diffuse nebula is is within is called IC4703, and that is not a visual nebula (and most certainly not with the small telescopes Messier and other early visual astronomers had available).

So regardless of how the unofficial term "Eagle Nebula" is currently used, the actual Eagle that gives it its name is the same structure as the Pillars.
So, umm, what should we call the larger nebula that engulfs the pillars of creation?
Officially, it is IC4703. Casually, the larger region is commonly called the Eagle these days. Most nebulas don't have names at all, just catalog numbers.

I didn't know that. And honestly, every single source I am reading from NASA websites to other astronomy related pages, they never mentioned that Pillars of creation are actually the real Eagle itself, they all noted that the pillars are structures INSIDE the Eagle Nebula. I am young though and I didn't know what people called it before. Thanks for clarifying!

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by orin stepanek » Mon May 15, 2023 4:32 pm

EagleDeep_Lacroce_1080.jpg
I see that the large enclosure does look like an eagle in flight; while
the enclosed photo does indeed look like an eagle; probably holding
a fish! Thanks Ann and Chris! 8-)
NINTCHDBPICT000560584900.jpg
Time for a good morning stretch! :lol2:
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Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon May 15, 2023 4:37 pm

Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:01 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:58 pm
Rauf wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:52 pm

So, umm, what should we call the larger nebula that engulfs the pillars of creation?
Officially, it is IC4703. Casually, the larger region is commonly called the Eagle these days. Most nebulas don't have names at all, just catalog numbers.

I didn't know that. And honestly, every single source I am reading from NASA websites to other astronomy related pages, they never mentioned that Pillars of creation are actually the real Eagle itself, they all noted that the pillars are structures INSIDE the Eagle Nebula. I am young though and I didn't know what people called it before. Thanks for clarifying!
There are a lot of unofficial names given to nebulas and other structures in the last 20 or 30 years as technology has allowed astroimagers to see so deep. But most or all of the old named objects derive from what people could see through the eyepiece... which is usually just a fuzzy gray spot. In many cases, the name only makes sense in that context; today, we see these wonderful, deep, high resolution images and the reason for the name is entirely unclear.
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by AVAO » Mon May 15, 2023 7:32 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:37 pm There are a lot of unofficial names given to nebulas and other structures in the last 20 or 30 years as technology has allowed astroimagers to see so deep.
Well. If I look at the area in the infrared, I would rather choose "the spooky eagle nebula" :evil:
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by VictorBorun » Mon May 15, 2023 8:06 pm

I wonder is the arc in fact one globe in front of the other as Orin seems to hint
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
Eagle Nebula Deep Field cat.jpg
Eagle Nebula Deep Field.jpg
...
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by VictorBorun » Mon May 15, 2023 8:28 pm

or is it a pair of co-centric globes or what
Eagle Nebula Deep Field.jpg
...

I tried to match IR image with this APOD of visible sulfur+oxigen+hydrogen by the stars that are visible in both ranges, but not sure if the stars stood still between the snapshots
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
I seem to remember some song that went like this:

what's that mystery Bok that I see on APOD
I never believed in insight at first glance
coz I was wrong ohhh wronggg
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon May 15, 2023 8:41 pm

Ann wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:15 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:36 pm
Chris Alex wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 12:44 pm The somewhat pompously so-called "Pillars of Creation" near the center are dwarfed by this giant eagle!
The "Pillars of Creation" are the eagle! Not the large structure seen in this image. They are one and the same.
_
Chris is right. Below you can see that "eagle outline" in the pictures that people took with old telescopes (like, I guess, the Hale Telescope of the Palomar Observatory):


Eagle outline in Eagle Nebula.png


So as you can see, the most iconic and tallest of the "Pillars of Creation" is not a part of the Eagle of the Eagle Nebula, because the tallest pillar isn't dark enough to have stood out in the pictures taken with the old telescopes.


Ann

That's the glorious Eagle Nebula? That's the saddest looking "eagle" I've ever seen. Surely there must be a more convincing image somewhere, but I have yet to find it. As some others above have already noted, I also thought the "Eagle" was the majestic bird poised above the "pillars", with the downward pointing head and sharp beak and wide-spread outstretched wings in a posture that suggest an imminent near landing and attack of the small group of snakes or worms that is the Pillars Of Creation!
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Ann » Tue May 16, 2023 6:09 am

VictorBorun wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:28 pm or is it a pair of co-centric globes or what
Eagle Nebula Deep Field.jpg
...

I tried to match IR image with this APOD of visible sulfur+oxigen+hydrogen by the stars that are visible in both ranges, but not sure if the stars stood still between the snapshots
Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
I seem to remember some song that went like this:

what's that mystery Bok that I see on APOD
I never believed in insight at first glance
coz I was wrong ohhh wronggg

Thanks AVAO and Victor!

Eagle Nebula Jac Berne SPITZER HERSCHEL Mix.png
Eagle Nebula detail annotated Gianni Lacroce.png

So the brightest star forming area, as detected by Spitzer and Herschel, is located just below the "Great Arch of the Eagle"!

So, Chris, you were right: The dark "opening" of the "arch" of the Eagle Nebula is not an opening at all, but a dust cloud. And at one end of this cloud of gas and dust, star formation is taking place.

Ann
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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by VictorBorun » Wed May 17, 2023 12:54 am

Ann wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 6:09 am
Eagle Nebula Jac Berne SPITZER HERSCHEL Mix.png
Eagle Nebula detail annotated Gianni Lacroce.png
So the brightest star forming area, as detected by Spitzer and Herschel, is located just below the "Great Arch of the Eagle"!

So, Chris, you were right: The dark "opening" of the "arch" of the Eagle Nebula is not an opening at all, but a dust cloud. And at one end of this cloud of gas and dust, star formation is taking place.

Ann
I wonder whether it's possible for a star formation to be this IR-bright and compact or is it in fact an accretion disk of a 1000 suns massive black hole?
And if this IR-lamp is also the X-lamp illuminating, exciting and turning to comet-like columns the Pillars of Creation, from «above» ? Hidden in X-range by the Black Black Bok cloud

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Re: APOD: M16: Eagle Nebula Deep Field (2023 May 15)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed May 17, 2023 2:55 am

VictorBorun wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:54 am
Ann wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 6:09 am
Eagle Nebula Jac Berne SPITZER HERSCHEL Mix.png
Eagle Nebula detail annotated Gianni Lacroce.png
So the brightest star forming area, as detected by Spitzer and Herschel, is located just below the "Great Arch of the Eagle"!

So, Chris, you were right: The dark "opening" of the "arch" of the Eagle Nebula is not an opening at all, but a dust cloud. And at one end of this cloud of gas and dust, star formation is taking place.

Ann
I wonder whether it's possible for a star formation to be this IR-bright and compact or is it in fact an accretion disk of a 1000 suns massive black hole?
And if this IR-lamp is also the X-lamp illuminating, exciting and turning to comet-like columns the Pillars of Creation, from «above» ? Hidden in X-range by the Black Black Bok cloud
IR bright material is cold. Accretion discs are hot, and emit strongly in UV or even x-rays.
Chris

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